Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Why would faith not be abiding in the person who is believing? Faith has to be present for a person to believe.
Once Saved Always Saved
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I am trusting in Christ so I do in fact have faith in me. I can't trust God without the faith to do that!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You've got to know the question being asked of you. You've got to know the circles you are talking in, to avoid answering their question. This is disenguous. It's very easy to see.
That's why these conversations with you just go in circles. Be bold. Be real.
Much love!
Is that so?
John 1:11-13 KJV
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:3 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Don't credit your salvation to your belief. That's just you accepting as true what God tells you.
If you are saved, it's because God gave you rebirth.
Much love!
When he said that the book of Hebrews "ruined my faith", he implied that I don't walk uprightly, if you take into account Micah 2:7. I am not going to go dig up the post; you are going to have to take my word for it that he said it to me; because I would know that he said it to me.
They are my words; and he also implied it when he said that the epistle "ruins people's faith". If he wasn't saying that the book of Hebrews isn't inspired, then he was saying that God's inspired word ruins people's faith. Take your pick.
Not exactly. But he did say that the book in general "ruins people's faith" and that it is better to avoid the book entirely; along with Matthew and James.
Why don't I see it then?
The Bible credits my salvation to my belief (Luke 8:12, Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9).
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I know he said that. The part he said, that is. You inferred that he meant something more, but I'd say let's stick with what the fellow said as being what he was talking about.
You present what I see as an erroneous view of these certain passages.
And you've concluded that the saved can be lost, and I ask you, what kind of salvation is that? Maybe it will work for you?
I believe in a Savior who will in fact save me, not just let me wander off and be lost.
3rd option . . . People take those words meant for good, and given by God, as something other than what they mean. Just like Peter said some do with Paul's words. Yes, inspired, yes, useful, in fact life changing, but some twist them to their own destruction. That doesn't take away from inspiration, or proper application. The only issue is misuse.
So he's not saying the book isn't inspired. Nor is he saying there is something wrong with God's Word. There is something wrong with how some people interpret and teach God's Word.
I have an idea why he's saying this, I'm not sure. But I have no problem recommending that you ground yourself is Paul's letters, as he is the apostle to the gentiles, and his letters have US as their first and primary appliction. Make sure you understand what Paul teaches, and you will find harmony with all the rest.
I couldn't say. Look at how clipped his responses are, and how often he doesn't actually address what he's answering. How he gives part of a thought, and when you try to pin him down, he'll give another part of a thought,
Like how @Tong2020 has been trying to ascertain whether @Ferris Bueller has an "abiding faith". I watch Ferris give non-answer after non-answers. Tong2020 obviously did not find an answer, and kept trying ask in different ways. But Ferris cannot commit himself to a real answer.
It's kind of like Jesus asking the Pharisee's where John's baptism was from. If they say one thing, it's a problem, but if they say the other thing, that doesn't sound good either.
The only thing Ferris can answer and remain consistent to his doctrine is that he does not know whether he has an abiding faith or not, because his life isn't over yet, and there's still time to turn back to death. Maybe it will stay, maybe it won't. Maybe he'll continue to believe, and maybe not. It's useless to discuss now, because all that matters is when you die. And no point in saying anything any different.
He can't say he's actually saved in the way I mean saved. When I say that I'm saved, what I believe is that my salvation is something God did for me, based on Jesus, that gives me eternal life with Him. This is my confidence. He's saved me to the uttermost, having forgiven my sin, and given me new life. My life is His life in me, and He does not change. My righteousness is His righteousness, and He does not change.
There is another issue.
Romans 8:14-17 KJV
14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16) The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Where is the testimony of the Spirit? Do you not know you are a child of God? Do you really think you're going to stop being that?
Can we really say we know God, when we think He's going to just toss us back?
What do we think He's saving us from? Isn't it our own sin?
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I know you can't see it (will you ever?), but it's how osas defines salvation that is causing the discussion to go around in circles. Osas is the one that can't move out of it's rut as it goes round and round as it treads out it's osas teachings, digger the rut all the deeper. It can't escape the rut it's in because it thinks there is only one way and one message to understand in the infamous osas scriptures.
See, I am able to honestly see that some of these verses can mean osas to the osas person and not mean osas to the anti-osas. But what is not up for debate is the common teaching in all of this.....keep believing. That is the important point. Settling the osas issue is a worthless distraction to that which actually matters. This doesn't mean you can't have an opinion either way about osas. What it means is stayed focused on what is clear and what the original osas and anti-osas both agree on and what actually matters. That is, the believer must continue in his believing to the very end.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I did give an answer, but he probably can't see it because of the osas programming. See, he's probably expecting an answer in line with his already tilted osas definition of salvation. That's why he may think I'm not answering him, because my answer doesn't fit into the predetermined osas thinking.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
This a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I make a simple statement that 'I believe, therefore I'm saved' and you instantly read your osas bias into it. But if you make the exact same statement it doesn't mean anti-osas at all! Funny how that works.
Let's look at my post:
marks said: ↑
Is that so?
John 1:11-13 KJV
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 3:3 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Don't credit your salvation to your belief. That's just you accepting as true what God tells you.
If you are saved, it's because God gave you rebirth.
Much love!
Can you point to the place were I talk about OSAS? Again, you are the one who introduced that.
I'm point out that in Scripture, there is an intervening event between your believing, and your receiving life, and that event is that our God gives you birth.
Much love!
The point being, this isn't Scripture. Scripture says your salvation is a gift from God, not some automatic result of your belief.
Much love!
In all the posts I read, you didn't give an answer. Perhaps you will give one to me.
Do you have an abiding faith? Does your faith continue?
Much love!
Those who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) have been sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and cannot be lost.
But there is also a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) that passes for faith in Christian circles; and some who have such a faith may even think that they have eternal security.
The purpose of my teaching here is to strip away false assurances and false hopes, that such a person can enter into lasciviousness (grace as a license for immorality) and will still be saved.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
If I believe God, and I do, that means faith is in me. How can you be a believer and not have faith inside of you? Your question is a little misguided. If you think real hard about how osas is forcing you to see things you may be able to see why you can't accept what I'm saying even though I'm making it very clear faith is in me.
However, receiving life does not come first, as the Calvinists preach erroneously that receiving life does come first (before believing).
It is scripture. We are saved by grace as the result of faith (Luke 8:12, Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9). These are basic scriptures in Christianity 101. So, I'm not sure why you haven't integrated them into your belief system.
Not from eternal hell; while they might be saved for a season from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14) and from the kingdom of hell for a season.
They also might cross over into a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) in which case they will never be able to lose their salvation.
But of course, whether they have such a faith will be determined in the long run by whether they endure to the end.
While they have everlasting life from the moment of their first faith (John 5:24 (kjv)).
Just as Abraham offering up Isaac on the altar proved that Abraham's faith was genuine; so enduring to the end proves that a person has the John 5:24 (kjv) kind of faith.
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Yes!
God gives a Converted man a "new heart'...
God does NOT GIVE a Converted man a 'new Mind.'
It is common knowledge;
* The Mind of a man IS Carnal, Hears, Learns, From the World, (ideas, practices, Philosophies, OF men). And is Against God.
* The Heart of a man IS Natural (natural spirit, natural persons truth).
* A man, HAS TWO INTERNAL "THOUGHT" processes;
* The Carnal Mind, which CAN think, Plan, "carry out" Pleasant OR Deceiving, Conniving, Underhanded thoughts.
* The spirit (Truth in a mans Heart), Always knows his Truth.
* A man can CARRY OUT, his MINDS IDEAS, against his HEARTS THOUGHTS.
* THE RESULT?
A Deceitful PLAN carried out BY the MINDS thoughts....MAY result Negatively ON the HEARTS thoughts.
* The Lord changes the heart.
* The Lord gives a man a new spirit (from His Seed)
* The man has to MAKE his mind acquiesce to the thoughts of his Heart.
A man whose Mind is trained to listen and act to his New Hearts thoughts...
Becomes in agreement Within himself...and achieves having a Mind LIKE Christ.
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