Once Saved Always Saved

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, it seems you don’t believe that faith is abiding. I’m getting the impression that what faith you have is not one that is abiding.

Why would faith not be abiding in the person who is believing? Faith has to be present for a person to believe.

Faith that God gives/gave the Christian is abiding in nature. Its being abiding has nothing to do with the recipient. The Christian does not make faith to be abiding.

Tong
R2650

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, you have faith. Is that faith you have abiding or not?

I am trusting in Christ so I do in fact have faith in me. I can't trust God without the faith to do that!

Do you know that faith that God gives the Christian is abiding? Do you know what scriptures meant by that? Like love that God gives the Christian, it is abiding. If it is not abiding, it ain’t one that comes from God.

Tong
R2651

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, are you believing and are saved, or not?

I believe, therefore I am saved.

Thank you for a clearer and more direct answer.

And yes, you are saved. And because you are saved, what became of you? Try to ponder upon the fact that you are saved. What have you received from God? The Holy Spirit indwelling? A new heart? A new spirit? Love? Faith? Hope? What have you received and now have because you are saved? Tell us, Ferris, for the praise and glory of God!

Tong
R2652

 

[Tong2020]

You've got to know the question being asked of you. You've got to know the circles you are talking in, to avoid answering their question. This is disenguous. It's very easy to see.

That's why these conversations with you just go in circles. Be bold. Be real.

Much love!

Just as I thought. Readers here will notice anyway and somehow see what is wrong and what is not, what is good and what is not.

But I just carry on and not mind and be caught up with such attitudes and not have like attitude.

I just hope things will change for the good to the praise and glory of our God!

Tong
R2653

 

[Tong2020]

I can't trust God without the faith to do that!

You said it yourself. You can’t trust God without faith.

Now this faith, you have received from God. You won’t have it otherwise. And not having it, you can’t believe God. Thanks be to God that He gave you faith.

Tong
R2654

 

[Tong2020]

Is that so?

John 1:11-13 KJV
11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:3 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Don't credit your salvation to your belief. That's just you accepting as true what God tells you.

If you are saved, it's because God gave you rebirth.

Much love!

The Christian is saved because God gave him Jesus Christ. The Christian is saved because God gave him faith. And a lot more.

In other words, the Christian is saved because God saved him.

Tong
R2655

 

[Tong2020]

I know you can't see it (will you ever?), but it's how osas defines salvation that is causing the discussion to go around in circles. Osas is the one that can't move out of it's rut as it goes round and round as it treads out it's osas teachings, digger the rut all the deeper. It can't escape the rut it's in because it thinks there is only one way and one message to understand in the infamous osas scriptures.

See, I am able to honestly see that some of these verses can mean osas to the osas person and not mean osas to the anti-osas. But what is not up for debate is the common teaching in all of this.....keep believing. That is the important point. Settling the osas issue is a worthless distraction to that which actually matters. This doesn't mean you can't have an opinion either way about osas. What it means is stayed focused on what is clear and what the original osas and anti-osas both agree on and what actually matters. That is, the believer must continue in his believing to the very end.

<<<That is, the believer must continue in his believing to the very end.>>>

And why is that? For such would manifest his heart. It’s manifestation of having been saved rather than it is a condition or requirement for salvation, salvation which he already was given and he already have. That the Christian is already saved is indisputable as scriptures testifies all over and state clearly over and over again.

The gospel is preached to all. Many profess to believe. But among those who profess to believe, some are saved and some not. Who the saved are, will be manifested. One who continues in the faith to the end of his earthly life is manifested to be among those saved. It is not that he is saved because he continued but that he is saved and os manifested as so by his continuing. To God be the glory in everything good that the saved does!

Tong
R2656

 

[Tong2020]

I did give an answer, but he probably can't see it because of the osas programming. See, he's probably expecting an answer in line with his already tilted osas definition of salvation. That's why he may think I'm not answering him, because my answer doesn't fit into the predetermined osas thinking.

An honest question have a corresponding honest answer.

Do you believe you are saved? That is an honest question. An honest answer, would be yes or no. There is no programming in that.

Do you believe that faith that is from God is abiding or not? That is an honest question. And an honest answer would be yes or no. There is no programming in that.

Why one can’t give an honest answer is perhaps because he goes beyond what is asked and worries about what his honest answer would mean, most likely to be going against something he believes in.

Tong
R2657

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
So, it seems you don’t believe that faith is abiding. I’m getting the impression that what faith you have is not one that is abiding.

If I believe God, and I do, that means faith is in me. How can you be a believer and not have faith inside of you? Your question is a little misguided. If you think real hard about how osas is forcing you to see things you may be able to see why you can't accept what I'm saying even though I'm making it very clear faith is in me.

Yes it is clear to me that you say you have faith or that faith is in you. In fact I accept believe as you say. What I am asking is about that faith that you say you have or is in you. Whether it is abiding or not. If you know, you could easily tell me if it is abiding or not. But if you don’t know, you can simply tell me that you don’t know.

Tong
R2658

 

[justbyfaith]

<<<That is, the believer must continue in his believing to the very end.>>>

And why is that? For such would manifest his heart. It’s manifestation of having been saved rather than it is a condition or requirement for salvation, salvation which he already was given and he already have.

Either way, if you don't continue in the faith you are no longer saved.

So, why even argue this issue?

How much better it is to just exhort everyone to continue in the faith.

For it is written,

Heb 3:12, Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

 

[Tong2020]

However, receiving life does not come first, as the Calvinists preach erroneously that receiving life does come first (before believing).

For one to see and hear and believe, he must necessarily be not dead first, but have life. Scriptures speaks of fallen natural mankind as being in a state of death, that is, as one dead, without life, as pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God. He cannot see nor hear, much less believe in God.

Tong
R2659

 

[justbyfaith]

For one to see and hear and believe, he must necessarily be not dead first, but have life. Scriptures speaks of fallen natural mankind as being in a state of death, that is, as one dead, without life, as pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God. He cannot see nor hear, much less believe in God.

Tong
R2659

A person is enabled to hear and see and believe when he or she is drawn by the Father (the Holy Spirit) to Jesus; and does not have to be regenerated before he or she can believe. If the latter were the case, they would have access by grace into this faith wherein they stand. But the scripture does not place it in that order, in Romans 5:1-2.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<That is, the believer must continue in his believing to the very end.>>>

And why is that? For such would manifest his heart. It’s manifestation of having been saved rather than it is a condition or requirement for salvation, salvation which he already was given and he already have.

Either way, if you don't continue in the faith you are no longer saved.

So, why even argue this issue?

How much better it is to just exhort everyone to continue in the faith.

For it is written,

Heb 3:12, Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13, But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14, For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

<<<Either way, if you don't continue in the faith you are no longer saved.>>>

Not either way. That is what I am arguing against.

I am not arguing against exhorting one another to continue in the faith. For I believe it is good to exhort one another of such, as we see the apostles and the Christians do so as recorded in scriptures.

<<<Either way, if you don't continue in the faith you are no longer saved.>>>

If that is what you believe, then you will live by it.

As I said it’s not either way. Truth is not either way.

What I was arguing against is on such statement like “if you don’t continue in the faith you are no longer saved”.

The gospel is preached to all. Many profess to believe. But among those who profess to believe, some are saved and some not. Who the saved are, will be manifested. One who continues in the faith to the end of his earthly life is manifested to be among those saved. It is not that he is saved because he continued but that he is saved and is manifested as so by his continuing. To God be the glory in everything good that the saved does!

Tong
R2660

 

[justbyfaith]

If the fact that he is saved is manifested by the fact that he continues in the faith, that would indicate that if he does not continue, he is not saved; because the fact that he did not continue manifests the fact that he is not saved.

So it is true that if he doesn't continue in the faith he is not saved.

It is the same thing either way.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
For one to see and hear and believe, he must necessarily be not dead first, but have life. Scriptures speaks of fallen natural mankind as being in a state of death, that is, as one dead, without life, as pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God. He cannot see nor hear, much less believe in God.

A person is enabled to hear and see and believe when he or she is drawn by the Father (the Holy Spirit) to Jesus; and does not have to be regenerated before he or she can believe. If the latter were the case, they would have access by grace into this faith wherein they stand. But the scripture does not place it in that order, in Romans 5:1-2.

I consider that enablement you say there is the making alive of one who is in a state of death pertaining to the things of the Spirit of God.

Tong
R2661

 

[Tong2020]

If the fact that he is saved is manifested by the fact that he continues in the faith, that would indicate that if he does not continue, he is not saved; because the fact that he did not continue manifests the fact that he is not saved.

So it is true that if he doesn't continue in the faith he is not saved.

It is the same thing either way.

<<<If the fact that he is saved is manifested by the fact that he continues in the faith, that would indicate that if he does not continue, he is not saved; because the fact that he did not continue manifests the fact that he is not saved.>>>

Finally, you got it.

And that is different to saying that if he does not continue, he is no longer saved.

Tong
R2662

 

[Taken]

<<<If the fact that he is saved is manifested by the fact that he continues in the faith, that would indicate that if he does not continue, he is not saved; because the fact that he did not continue manifests the fact that he is not saved.>>>

Finally, you got it.

And that is different to saying that if he does not continue, he is no longer saved.

Tong
R2662

YES!

CONTINUE -
means in brief to KEEP DOING.

Men...Under the Law, "CONTINUE" what the Law requires, (by the mans POWER).

Men...Under Grace, "CONTINUE" what Grace requires, (by the POWER of God).

THE HIGHLIGHT IS ESTABLISHED;
God "OFFERED" TWO CHOICES, "ACCEPTABLE" TO God.

* ANY INDIVIDUAL MAN...DECIDES his OWN
CHOICE "BY his OWN AGREEMENT";
TO BE "Under the LAW".
OR
TO BE "Under GRACE".

* NO ONE, forces ANY MAN, to Choose EITHER of Gods Acceptable "OFFERINGS".

ANY man, (Tribe or Gentile), could, can, Choose to BE UNDER the LAW...
AND that CHOICE, MEANS "they must CONTINUE" under the Law, To fulfil "their OWN Agreement".

ONCE a NEW OFFERING "WAS OFFERED"...
ANY man, (Tribe or Gentile), could, can,
Choose to BE released from the LAW, (and IT'S Penalities for Violations); and
Accept (by their choice), TO BE "UNDER GRACE"...
THEY DO "NOT", "CONTINUE" Under Grace;
'BY THEIR OWN POWER"...
A man "UNDER GRACE", Continues Under Grace.....BY THE POWER OF GOD!

POINT BEING...
Scriptural WARNINGS TO CONTINUE... ONLY APPLIES to any man....
WHEN
The individual man is KEEPING his word (agreement), "BY HIS OWN POWER".

A man WHO has Accepted Gods Offering of "UNDER GRACE"....(through Christ Jesus)...
NEEDS (nor is given) A WARNING "TO CONTINUE"...
"THE CONTINUING (UNDER GRACE) IS ALREADY ESTABLISHED TO BE "KEPT FOREVER", BY Gods "POWER".

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What I am asking is about that faith that you say you have or is in you. Whether it is abiding or not. If you know, you could easily tell me if it is abiding or not. But if you don’t know, you can simply tell me that you don’t know.

Tong
R2658

Faith remains in me. I haven't stopped believing. I have not cast it away. Why are you asking this?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you believe you are saved? That is an honest question. An honest answer, would be yes or no.

Yes, I am saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you believe that faith that is from God is abiding or not? That is an honest question. And an honest answer would be yes or no.

Faith from God will remain in you if you do not cast it off in unbelief. It remains in me. I'm still a believer.