I think the Holy Spirit is really good at proving He exists that's for sure. But what about the miracles Jesus performed as testament of God's existence. And with all this we have the New and Old Testaments. So what is a testament? It's a testimony of witnesses to events. In a court of law that would be evidence. So if the bible is full of evidence, then wouldn't that be how to convert non-believers? Also explaining that God can heal and resurrect us, wound or kill us? I'd rather be on the healing and resurrecting side of his judgments.
Do you have to prove God exists?
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I think the Holy Spirit is really good at proving He exists that's for sure. But what about the miracles Jesus performed as testament of God's existence. And with all this we have the New and Old Testaments. So what is a testament? It's a testimony of witnesses to events. In a court of law that would be evidence. So if the bible is full of evidence, then wouldn't that be how to convert non-believers? Also explaining that God can heal and resurrect us, wound or kill us? I'd rather be on the healing and resurrecting side of his judgments.
Not at all. Christians are simply required to preach the Gospel or share the Gospel.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Yes, provided the acceptance criteria has been established.
On a host of topics, not having to do with religion, I've noticed debate goes sideways, not for lack of evidence but lack of acceptance criteria. No matter the subject - political, legal, philosophical, theological, personal, scientific - some people are not open to evidence. The Bible calls them not having eyes to see or ears to hear.
Compare the Left pushing 'the science' of Global Warming, claiming it is 'settled' to their denial of the science of X and Y chromosomes determining gender.
Good point. I usually ignore people that make no common sense. I guess I'm not really versed on that left type. Some make common sense into arrogance of ignorance.
Kaz
Active Member
I don't think we need to prove it. Look all around us. Personally I don't see how someone can step outdoors, look at the sky, the sun, the clouds, animals, water and not believe that someone far greater than us was responsible for creating it all. If a human can approach me and create a volcano or a tree right in front of me, then maybe I'll listen to what they have to say, but I'm fairly sure that will never happen.
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Lol, He manifests Himself through us, the born again. Will people ever understand that we are His body made manifest.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Regardless of how hard you try you’ll not manifest Him to the world with your logic.
Its a fools errand.
Its a fools errand.
No, when it comes to the things of God I don't play games. You are apparently not understanding what I am saying... or disagree with me. As you have seen on some threads I have posted agreeing with you against others on some points...
Trinitarians often come up strong against me because I am not a trinitarian but I am also no longer exactly equal to the Oneness Jesus Only people. What am I? God knows, but why is it so necessary for people to take on or be given a label like that?
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
No one can prove God exists except by experience. Quoting verses of scripture does not prove God exists. It only confims that God exists but without the experience first the confirmation usually does not fly.
The sad thing is too many christian cannot prove God exists because they have never experienced him. They know about him but they do not know him. Once you know him, everything changes.
It is no different to people who claim certain things in life. They claim it because they have done it. If they haven't done it, then it is nothing more than an educated guess.
I have had two experiences that prove to me without a shadow of doubt that God exists. The first was when he saved me from death at the age of 36 and I was married and had two adorable children that would have been left fatherless.
The first was when I was travelling at 100ks an hour without a seat belt on and the car had no air bags. I came round a bend and there was another car overtaking traffic on my side of the road. There was nothing I could do to stop the collision so I grabbed the wheel with both hands and said "Jesus, here I come." I really though it was D Day for me.
In that very moment I felt two hands take hold of my shoulders that held me in my seat as the two cars ploughed into each other. A cut on my nose and a bruised knee was all I suffered. Does God exist? You bet he does.
The second was one day I was praying about abortion. As I prayed I was taken up into heaven and came face to face with God. We hugged each other and he started crying. I asked him why he was crying and he said it was because he had been waiting for this for a long time. When I came back to earth again I knew that he was crazy about me. Does God exist? You bet he does.
Oh you sound so clever, much too clever for me.Yes. Quoting a part one wants to respond to is common, isn't it?
True but besides the point, which is not about God but about having to offer proof.
Do you know what a converse statement is? While true that ALL RECTANGLES ARE SQUARES, not all squares are rectangles. I think that is what is going on here. Given 'only the Holy Spirit can reveal God to you through Jesus' then there is no basis to advance the Great Commission, right?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Not at all. What I’m saying, I’ve said several times. Your posts are generically true but do not pertain to the specific topic in the thread. Some call your contribution stating truisms.
Take this thread. Q. Do you have to prove God exists? A. Yes or No. instead, you post truisms, like we all need the Holy Spirit.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
When I first heard John 3:16, I believed it. I was saved by faith, and faith came by hearing the word.
I did not choose to believe it, not to knock the experience of others, but I still did.
For me, it was a supernatural experience, complete with a vision.
The only reason I was in a church that day was to shut up a preachy Jesus freak!
Seeker-sensitive, he was not, and for that, I will be forever grateful. :)
I did not choose to believe it, not to knock the experience of others, but I still did.
For me, it was a supernatural experience, complete with a vision.
The only reason I was in a church that day was to shut up a preachy Jesus freak!
Seeker-sensitive, he was not, and for that, I will be forever grateful. :)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Both God and Jesus provided proof to unbelievers.
Today's Devotional Reading: With your very own eyes you saw what I did. Joshua 24:7
Yesterday's Spirit led reading. But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father. John 10:38
Today's Devotional Reading: With your very own eyes you saw what I did. Joshua 24:7
Yesterday's Spirit led reading. But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father. John 10:38
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
As Christians we are encouraged to make full proof of our ministry 2 Tim 4:5 however we cannot do that to those who do not want to hear. There is absolutely no way to prove that God exists that cannot be refuted. I would love to be able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, but the fact is at this time it is only opinion.
Christians however do not have this responsibility to offer proof to the unbeliever, as our job is to plant seeds of message, and water those seeds with more evidence, however with all that, it is God that makes them grow 1 Cor 3:6-9, our job is finished when we reach the people with the good news, it then becomes their responsibility to take action for their own salvation.
I will say that God is not evil by not making it grow in some, as He makes those seeds grow to those with a receptive heart, He does not force anyone to serve Him, that is called free will, if a person is uninterested in forming a relationship with Him, then He will not force growth in the individual. Most of us get many opportunities in our lifetime however, to come to know and love God.
So how many people have you told the Good news to and how many accepted and how many rejected it. We can tell people but it's not us who reveals God to them but the Holy Spirit.
And as for answering you question it was so clever that I didn't understand it.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
If 'only the Holy Spirit can reveal God to you through Jesus', then telling people the Good News is pointless, right? That is my question. What don't you understand about this clever question?
Regarding your question; I'm not sure if I shared with you the political theory that it takes 20 times for a person to hear a valid idea they do not agree with (goes against their initial thought or affiliation) before accepting it as valid. I think the same is true with religion.
I've talked to 100's of people about the Good News. My specialty is atheists online and my goal is not persuasion but to get them to a point of being speechless. When people do not have a response, I know that I got them thinking. My go to tactic is to get them to establish an acceptance criteria BEFORE delving into proof. This is an unorthodox approach as most Christians eagerly throw pearls before swine.
Have you seen the vid's online of the guy who approaches unbelievers and uses the 10 Commandments to convict them? He also uses science. The Big Bang Theory supports Creation. Atheists tend not to realize it until someone like me points it out. Facts. Evidence. Proof. Psalm 19 unites God's Word with God's Work. The proof is all around us if only you have eyes to see and ears to hear. :-)
Ah now see, you didn't answer my question. But we could keep on going in circles likes this and it is getting us nowhere. Best to leave it don't you think?
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