Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Renniks said:

No, all Adam had to know was that God told him not to eat and he did. Adam CHOSE to disobey.
Of course, there's a choice recoded in the creation account, don't be ridiculous. Adam took a course of action he didn't have to take.

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You finally wrote something accurate with "all Adam had to know was that God told him not to eat and he did", but then you immediately spoil that statement with your addition to scripture of "Adam CHOSE to disobey".

You also wrote "Adam took a course of action" which is scriptural, but you joined it with your leavened it with your unscriptural thoughts of "he didn't have to take".

Your unscriptural "he didn't have to take" collides against the prophecy of God "when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:17, The Meaning Of The Hebrew Words אכל(akal)/"eat" and מות(muth)/"die"in Genesis 2:16-17)

The only "choice" in Genesis 2:16-17 and/or Genesis 3:6 is the "choice" that you add to the Word of God - so your claim puts you in the illegitimate position of being god of which God had me point out to you in my recent previous posts to you.

Since you are not God and you add "choice" to scripture where God did not include "choice"; therefore, "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6) applies to you, Rennicks.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.

There is no free will choice indicated in the creation account for Adam, so there is no free will choice for anybody thereafter, thus shows the biblical citation in the original post.

Jlentz said:

If he had no freewill he wouldn't have eaten of the tree. Pretty simple huh?

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The command God spoke to Adam includes the prophecy that Adam would eat the fruit "and commanded YHWH God to the man, saying 'Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying'" (Genesis 2:17, The Meaning Of The Hebrew Words אכל(akal)/"eat" and מות(muth)/"die"in Genesis 2:16-17). God knew Adam would eat, and Adam could not thwart God's purpose (Job 42:2).

Please see the original post which includes item 1 explaining the prophecy.

Adam was flesh, and the flesh opposes God's Spirit (Galatians 5:17).

Adam was not imparted free will, and no person subsequently has been imparted free will, just as the original post shows in scripture.

Backlit said:

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

If not, what is the alternative? That God made him do it?

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Your post is absent of scripture, just like your thoughts about Adam having free will.

Anyway, to answer your question of "If not, what is the alternative", you should go read the original post.

You have a real deadly eternal problem for your soul because you oppose the Word, and you have no Word supporting free will for Adam.

Here is more that is included by reference to the original post.

Adam was flesh, and the flesh opposes God's Spirit (Galatians 5:17).

Stop trying to reason in your own thoughts. Listen to the Word.

Adam was not imparted free will, and no person subsequently has been imparted free will, just as the original post shows in scripture.

Enoch111 said:

Choice is IMPLIED in the commandment. You do not need to look for an explicit word when choice is implied. Take another look at this verse: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The commandment said "Do not eat the fruit from that tree". And the choice is implied within "in the day that thou eatest thereof" (which means that Adam could CHOOSE to disobey). The "informed choice" was in the very serious consequence "thou shalt surely die".

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An "implication" occurs when a person makes an inference upon a subject matter for which no underlying explicit text exists. The Word of God does not explicitly state that Adam had the ability to "choose", so you add the implicit "choice" by way of your thoughts; moreover, it is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

You add to the Word of God because you implicate "choose" where it does not exist.

A word about adding to scripture as you have done. It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

justbyfaith said:

You must receive Christ in order to become a child of God.

If that is not an act of the will, I don't know what is.

John 1:13 shows us that we cannot muster up salvation as an act of the will; which does not preclude that we must not make a free will decision to receive Christ in order to obtain the right to become a child of God.

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"RECEIVE" DEFINITION BY EXAMPLE:

The woman received a punch to her face dislocating her septum - not by choice - but in the fury of her assailant's surprise attack.

The pedestrian received a series of traumatic injuries - not by choice - but a result of the car jumping the curb.

A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

RECEIVED MEANS A THING THAT UNAVOIDABLY CAME IN FROM A SOURCE TO A RECIPIENT - RECEIVE IS NOT A CHOICE LIKE ACCEPT - RECEIVE JUST HAPPENS.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is a result of being born of God in John 1:12-13.

The Apostle John wrote receiving Christ is not an act of the will of man in John 1:12-13.

The ones who received Christ are the ones "who were born" "of God".

Let's follow the blessed chain linking these people of whom John wrote which is the "born of God" (John 1:13, John 3:3-8) links with "believe in His name" (John 1:12, John 6:29) links with "many as received Him" (John 1:12, John 9).

Each of these are exactly the same people:

• "many as received Him"
• "children of God"
• "believe in His name"
• "born of God"

See that John states none of these enumerated people achieved this by "the will of man".

Here is the passage:

"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1:12-13).

John 1:12-13 shows that you cannot cause yourself to receive Jesus.

John 1:12-13 shows that God causes people to receive Jesus.

justbyfaith said:

I cannot say one day, "I am going to be saved" and thus be saved.

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That is a bald-faced lie. You most certainly do think that a person can say one day "I choose to open my heart for you so you can now come in to rule, Jesus" and thus be saved.

justbyfaith said:

There is a prescribed method for obtaining salvation; and God is the One who does the saving.

I do not save myself.

However, I can be absolutely certain that I have procured salvation if I ask the Lord to save me, calling on His name.

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You wrote "procured" because you think that you purchased salvation with your choice toward Jesus.

That which you have is not grace because grace is unearned love - not purchased - not procured.

Furthermore, that which you wrote is antichrist because Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) as well as ""he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21).

justbyfaith said:

To which I reply that, "I think that I also have the Spirit of God" (1 Corinthians 7:40).

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Your additions to and subtractions from the Word of God indicate a contrary position to your claim.

justbyfaith said:

So, yes, interpretation is up to the Spirit of God; and I think that I also have Him in my heart.

So, how is my interpretation going to be very far off from what the author of the Book says is the interpretation?

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It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6), and the above explanation of your thoughts shows where you added to scripture.

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27) - notice that no one who practices lying gets in, and a human adding to scripture is the human lying.

Your free will assertion is referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is pure evil.

Nancy said:

Hi Kermos,
You asked:"is the claim substantiated in scripture?"
And below, in my post you are replying to, pretty much gives the answer...?
Also, i do not know if you are a Trinitarian or not but if you are, then show me those scriptures. I do not see this adding to scripture at all. God gives us only the information He wills,

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I generally do not use that term because it does not occur in Scripture. I do not have to add to scripture nor subtract from scripture in order to show that God self references as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

I believe in one eternal God, existing as three distinct and equal persons being Love (Genesis 1:26 [plurality], Isaiah 48:16 [all three mentioned], Romans 1:7 [Father], John 8:58 [Son, referring back to Exodus 3:14], John 15:26 [Spirit], 1 John 4:8 [Love]).

I believe God is Love, God is Light, and God is Good (1 John 4:8, 1 John 1:5, Luke 18:19)!

I believe the Son of God named Jesus is the only Way to God the Father in Heaven. I believe the Truth is the continually immediate inspiration of the indwelling Holy Spirit of God as the one and only possible means of our love of God. I believe salvation, sanctification, and the Lifeeternal are all God delivered into the holy ones (saints) covered by the atoning blood of the formerly crucified but now Living Son of the Living God, Jesus Christ, my Savior and my God! (John 14:9, John 14:26, John 15:26, John 17:21, John 17:26).

Nancy said:

Mine in blue:
As far as God "God's plans have already happened in eternity", no, there is no specific scripture that does say that but it is sure inferred?
Isaiah 46:10
"Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"
Isaiah 14:24
"The LORD of Hosts has sworn: "Surely, as I have planned, so will it be; as I have purposed, so will it stand."
And several other verses infer this to me, anyhow." So, I initially did say that there were no specific scriptures that I knew of.
This can be seen as a time vs. eternity thing. Eternity has no beginning and no end. It's not like those living outside of time have to "wait" for next Thursday, lol.
Of course no-one could ever "thwart God's hand". That nor "adding or subtracting" from His Word was never my intention! I was simply speaking of His fore knowledge as to what is going to happen, now, and in the future.
After all, God does go before us
Deuteronomy 31:8
"8 And the Lord, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed."
Love you bro!

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Eternity is composed of every second.

"the things that are not yet done" (Isaiah 46:10) removes any potential for things to already been done in eternity.

P.S. you wrote "Mine in blue", but I failed to find any blue text.

Truman the Levite said:

Trying to understand God and His eternal reality is like trying to explain 3 dimensions to a 2-dimensional being. It's why Jesus used parables to describe spiritual realities. I once had a vision of God's realm. The best way I can describe it is that it is awesome beyond words. Our words are not designed to describe such.

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We can understand God because of the Word of God (John 1:14).

We can understand man because of the Word of God (John 1:14).

We can understand things to come because of the Word of God (John 1:14).

We can understand the spiritual things because of the Word of God (John 1:14).

We can understand that Adam was not imparted free will, and this is because of the Word of God, please see the original post.

Enoch111 said:

Not by way of my thoughts but by way of how God stated Adam's options.

If you told someone standing on a ledge planning to commit suicide "Do not jump, or you will die" is there a choice implied? Of course there is. But some people simply cannot let go of their false beliefs.

Now if you hate logic and love nonsense, you will continue to try and deceive others by suggesting that there was no freewill in either case.

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Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

You implicate "choice" into the creation account. Another person implicated that Adam will be the last person on earth. Too many people think that they can implicate whatever they want into scripture, but what you people really are doing is claiming to be a god by implicating in your thoughts and words into the Word of God.