A Spiritual Christian does not sin.

biggandyy said:

That victory is through Christ who became sin on our behalf so when we are judged we aren't judged by our own righteousness but by His.

By proclaiming you are without sin you are proclaiming yourself a Christ in and of yourself.

The gospel does offer victory, but that victory is not yet realized neither for the saint or the sinner. Christ's victory appeased He Father in Heaven, that is the reason He went to the cross. Not so we can pretend to be sinless and without blemish, but so our ugliness marred by sin won't stand before our Father in Heaven.

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Not one person here is claiming being sinless without Christ.

Your claiming that people do is a straw man that you set up to kick down Big. It is a ploy, a tactic to avoid the real issue, that is, whether or not your "Gospel"makes you a sinless man or not.

If you still sin after having been redeemed by the blood of Christ, scriptures are very clear that you are of the evil one and are a fraud.

Those pointing this out to you with the Word of God are concerned for your salvation, and you simply turn and call them "arrogant"?

Me thinks you think way too much of yourself whoever you are. Repent of your sins and quit turning back to your vomit like a dog and quit attempting to lead other weak minded folk away with your false doctrine that "sinning" now is still just quite fine.

Word to the wise.

Yies1 said:

I'm trying to understand you're reasoning. Your saying you no longer sin because you have confessed your sins. Where does it say that the confession of sins sets us free from original sin?

From God's viewpoint there are four levels of sin. 1 Original sin. 2 Inherited sin. 3 Collective sin, and 4 Personal sin.

When a perfect Christian man (who has confessed his sins), marries a perfect Christian woman (who has also confessed her sins) marry and have children, are the children who are born of such a union born with or without sin? Those children are still born with sin, the parents still pass on sin to their children.


Worth a repost, "if we claim to be without sin".

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The Marriage between Christ and the Church (us, His followers) produces Children of God who's Will is of their Father, the Sinless Christ Jesus. We Children can't but help do the Righteousness of our Father Just as we couldn't help doint the sinfulness of our previous father.

The only people who still sin are the people who still have their earthly father's will leading their lives.
For those whose Father is Christ, they conduct themselves differently. They speak differently. Their Will is their Father's Will.

Our Father overcame temptation and sin. He now Lives within us.
We now overcome temptation and sin and also death... Forever! Praise Jesus

As has been provided out of romans 8, so also is it as I bear witness in the Holy Spirit of Christ in me, Living His Life within me. When you can understand being filled with Christ's Life and being a servant of Righteousness, so also will you understand the New Father who passes on Righteousness into me, and not as my old father who previously passes sin onto me.
That is why I died. To satisfy the law of sin, death.
Now, I walk in the Spirit of Christ, who IS RIGHTEOUS.
He doesn't sin in me, so I don't see sin happening in me.
It is that simple.
I am dead, He Lives in me.
When you understand these scriptures, you will then understand who I AM

(Rom 8:2)

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

(Rom 8:9)

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


(Rom 8:13)

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


(Gal 2:20)

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Stan said:

He's playing with words Yies. He knows he can't out-right say he DOESN'T sin.

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Paul tells us that with his mind he serves God, yet his body still serves up sin. Perhaps Whitestone knows better than Paul.

"We ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we await...the redemption of our body" (Rom 8:23).

Perhaps he no longer is required to await for the redemption of HIS body?

Stan said:

Sorry I did edit my post to show verse 8, "if we claim to be without sin". Also take a look at the following.

1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.


I do NOT sin more whitestone, but I do sin. Do you sin at ALL, or do you NOT sin at all?

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I love that scripture. I think it was the first one I memorized.
Appropriately so, for when I was a new Christian, I still sinned, yes. I wasn't taught properly what the "advocate" meant. Now that I know it is the same word "Paraclete" which IS the Holy Spirit, I never asked for Christ to Come into me as the Holy Spirit.
So yes, I sinned until then.

But when I asked Jesus to Come into me as that Holy Spirit/Comforter/Anointing/Advocate Self, and dwell in my Temple Body that I killed in the crucifixion/waters of baptism,
Then became raised up in newness of Life in thinking with the Mind of Christ, in Speaking with His Words, and in Walking in His Light, No I don't sin Stan.

Because I'm dead.
Only Christ Lives in me. And HE does NOT sin.
So I don't witness any lies come out my mouth, nor do I plot evil against any man or woman, nor do I see this body steal or commit adultery or covet things, and why?
Because Jesus doesn't steal or commit adultery or covet or lie or sin in any way!

That is the ONLY way I can be made Holy and sinless.

Why do only two or three others here comprehend this??

How can someone claim to be a Christian and still be a sinner????? That is so UN scriptural!

If anyone sins, YES! Make sure you ask Jesus to Come into you as your Holy Spirit and Father you as 1 John 2:1 says! Jesus is the ONLY way you can quit sinning.

This is the Gospel Word of God.

Peace
Whitestone

whitestone said:

Not one person here is claiming being sinless without Christ.

Your claiming that people do is a straw man that you set up to kick down Big. It is a ploy, a tactic to avoid the real issue, that is, whether or not your "Gospel"makes you a sinless man or not.

If you still sin after having been redeemed by the blood of Christ, scriptures are very clear that you are of the evil one and are a fraud.

Those pointing this out to you with the Word of God are concerned for your salvation, and you simply turn and call them "arrogant"?

Me thinks you think way too much of yourself whoever you are. Repent of your sins and quit turning back to your vomit like a dog and quit attempting to lead other weak minded folk away with your false doctrine that "sinning" now is still just quite fine.

Word to the wise.

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I haven't seen anyone post here that "sin/sinning is just fine."
What I see is people trying to advocate "sinlessness" after salvation, which is NOT fine.

Gal 2:17; But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Of course not!

Hebrews 12:1
Therefore since we ourselves have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every impediment, and the sin that so easily distracts, and let us run with endurance the race that is prescribed for us,

ONLY Christ is WITHOUT sin.

Stan said:

He's playing with words Yies. He knows he can't out-right say he DOESN'T sin.

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Quite contrare Stan.

Since I've confessed my sins He has been faithful and just to forgive me my sins and cleanse me from all unrighteousness.

Just as He said.

"Sinning" is "unrighteousness". Evidently you haven't done this.

Because since I have been cleansed from all unrighteousness I certainly haven't sinned.

I'm not like a dog that turns to its own vomit. Then tries to find consolation amongst other dogs who also don't know not to turn to their own vomit.

How surprising to come to a "christian forum" and find such ignorance of such basics of the Gospel!

It is pretty easy to see who is who around here;

(1Jn 3:8)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

(1Jn 5:18)
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Stan said:

I haven't seen anyone post here that "sin/sinning is just fine."
What I see is people trying to advocate "sinlessness" after salvation, which is NOT fine.

Gal 2:17; But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Of course not!

Hebrews 12:1
Therefore since we ourselves have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every impediment, and the sin that so easily distracts, and let us run with endurance the race that is prescribed for us,

ONLY Christ is WITHOUT sin.

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The Gospel message that we can live in sinlessness after salvation YOU SAY is NOT FINE???

You are a false prophet of the highest order stan. We now know who you are.

Gal 2:17 does NOT support your false statement whatsoever. It means to "get your act together" if you are a sinner and STOP!

Likewise, Heb 12;1 says to "set sin aside"!!

NEITHER verse is meant to be twisted and morphed by a "sinner" into making "Sin after salvation FINE" as you are doing.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

I council no one here to listen to this person's anti-christian teachings.

If being delievered from sin, guilt and shame, is NOT of the Gospel of Jesus, then Christ Himself has no idea what He is doing, according to men who say that "sinlessness" is impossible.

Go and sin no more Stan. Repent of your sins and be baptized and go and SIN NO MORE

Hi biggandyy,

We've been made partakers of the divine nature. We have not been made either 'divine' or, independently sinless. By resting in Christ's death, we are freed from the power of sin. By living in His life, through the power of the Holy Spirit, we do not fulfil the lusts of the flesh. That's the NT definition of not sinning, and it is strongly linked to the definition of sins under the Mosaic Law, and, to the law written on our hearts through circumcision of Jesus Christ - Rom 2:29, Col 2:11.

Hebrews 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord;
I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Acts 13:38 Be it known to you therefore, men [and] brethren, that through this man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins:
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish:
for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me;
him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will
not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. ... 26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son
Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Isa 59:20, Rom 11:26. That's the same promise which began to be proclaimed on the day of Pentecost. In Isaiah, the people are to turn away from their sins. The same thing - both - apply today - co-operating with God.

whitestone said:

Quite contrare Stan.

Since I've confessed my sins He has been faithful and just to forgive me my sins and cleanse me from all unrighteousness.

Just as He said.

"Sinning" is "unrighteousness". Evidently you haven't done this.

Because since I have been cleansed from all unrighteousness I certainly haven't sinned.

I'm not like a dog that turns to its own vomit. Then tries to find consolation amongst other dogs who also don't know not to turn to their own vomit.

How surprising to come to a "christian forum" and find such ignorance of such basics of the Gospel!

It is pretty easy to see who is who around here;

(1Jn 3:8)
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

(1Jn 5:18)
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.



Sinlessness after salvation is NOT FINE???

You are a false prophet of the highest order stan.

Gal 2:17 does NOT support your false statement whatsoever. It means to "get your act together" if you are a sinner and STOP!

Likewise, Heb 12;1 says to "set sin aside"!!

NEITHER verse is meant to be twisted and morphed by a "sinner" into making "Sin after salvation FINE" as you are doing.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Well if it was contrary, you would say, "I don't sin".
You know what is said of those that ASS U ME?
It's NOT very surprising to see on ANY forum, so-called Christians that advocate sinlessness in their carnal nature. Even Paul admitted he sinned.The tragedy is those same people will never be able to confess(agree with God) their sins because they think they don't sin.
Using vernacular of the 1600 doesn't really help your cause, it just serves to reinforce your lack of understanding of what the scriptures actually say about sin and a sinful lifestyle.
Jesus commended the woman who said, "Even the dogs eat scraps from their masters table".
The dogs you refer to BTW are FALSE Teachers. Those that have These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. [sup]18 [/sup]For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. [sup]19 [/sup]They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” [sup]20 [/sup]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 2 Peter 2:17-20


Those that teach that in Christ we do not sin are the false teachers, returning to their own vomit.


Heb 13:8; Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He didn't change after you got saved, YOU did. Kinda sad actually.

whitestone said:

I love that scripture. I think it was the first one I memorized.
Appropriately so, for when I was a new Christian, I still sinned, yes. I wasn't taught properly what the "advocate" meant. Now that I know it is the same word "Paraclete" which IS the Holy Spirit, I never asked for Christ to Come into me as the Holy Spirit.
So yes, I sinned until then.

But when I asked Jesus to Come into me as that Holy Spirit/Comforter/Anointing/Advocate Self, and dwell in my Temple Body that I killed in the crucifixion/waters of baptism,
Then became raised up in newness of Life in thinking with the Mind of Christ, in Speaking with His Words, and in Walking in His Light, No I don't sin Stan.

Because I'm dead.
Only Christ Lives in me. And HE does NOT sin.
So I don't witness any lies come out my mouth, nor do I plot evil against any man or woman, nor do I see this body steal or commit adultery or covet things, and why?
Because Jesus doesn't steal or commit adultery or covet or lie or sin in any way!

That is the ONLY way I can be made Holy and sinless.

Why do only two or three others here comprehend this??

How can someone claim to be a Christian and still be a sinner????? That is so UN scriptural!

If anyone sins, YES! Make sure you ask Jesus to Come into you as your Holy Spirit and Father you as 1 John 2:1 says! Jesus is the ONLY way you can quit sinning.

This is the Gospel Word of God.

Peace
Whitestone

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Well if this is the way you interpret or understand scripture I'm not surprised you DON'T understand. Both Christ and the Holy Spirit were sent to be our Advocates. The Greek word is paraklētos, which means Advocate, Lawyer, Counsel. It means we have someone who pleads our case continually before the Father. The Bible says "ONE mediator", not two. The Holy Spirit infills us to remind us of Christ and His word. Why would we need an advocate if we never sinned after salvation? The whole point of Jesus shedding His blood was to redeem us as we accepted His sacrifice. The whole reason we receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit is to confirm the fact that Jesus paid for our sins. The Holy Spirit does not come into a person who has NOT confessed their sins and Jesus as their Saviour.

God will hold you to these words whitestone. Remember the Pharisee and the tax collector? Luke 18:10-14;



THIS, is the actual word of Christ.

Stan said:

Well if it was contrary, you would say, "I don't sin".
You know what is said of those that ASS U ME?
It's NOT very surprising to see on ANY forum, so-called Christians that advocate sinlessness in their carnal nature. Even Paul admitted he sinned.The tragedy is those same people will never be able to confess(agree with God) their sins because they think they don't sin.
Using vernacular of the 1600 doesn't really help your cause, it just serves to reinforce your lack of understanding of what the scriptures actually say about sin and a sinful lifestyle.
Jesus commended the woman who said, "Even the dogs eat scraps from their masters table".
The dogs you refer to BTW are FALSE Teachers. Those that have These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. [sup]18 [/sup]For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. [sup]19 [/sup]They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” [sup]20 [/sup]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 2 Peter 2:17-20


Those that teach that in Christ we do not sin are the false teachers, returning to their own vomit.


Heb 13:8; Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He didn't change after you got saved, YOU did. Kinda sad actually.

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If dogs that claim to not sin are the ones returning to their vomit that would mean that they claimed victory over sin like every other non- Christian, right??? Where do you live where non-believers claim to have victory over sin?

Without the law there is no sin.

biggandyy said:

Without the law there is no sin.

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Without Christ no man could uphold the law.

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Stan said:

Well if it was contrary, you would say, "I don't sin".
You know what is said of those that ASS U ME?
It's NOT very surprising to see on ANY forum, so-called Christians that advocate sinlessness in their carnal nature. Even Paul admitted he sinned.The tragedy is those same people will never be able to confess(agree with God) their sins because they think they don't sin.
Using vernacular of the 1600 doesn't really help your cause, it just serves to reinforce your lack of understanding of what the scriptures actually say about sin and a sinful lifestyle.
Jesus commended the woman who said, "Even the dogs eat scraps from their masters table".
The dogs you refer to BTW are FALSE Teachers. Those that have These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. [sup]18 [/sup]For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. [sup]19 [/sup]They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” [sup]20 [/sup]If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 2 Peter 2:17-20


Those that teach that in Christ we do not sin are the false teachers, returning to their own vomit.


Heb 13:8; Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

He didn't change after you got saved, YOU did. Kinda sad actually.




Well if this is the way you interpret or understand scripture I'm not surprised you DON'T understand. Both Christ and the Holy Spirit were sent to be our Advocates. The Greek word is paraklētos, which means Advocate, Lawyer, Counsel. It means we have someone who pleads our case continually before the Father. The Bible says "ONE mediator", not two. The Holy Spirit infills us to remind us of Christ and His word. Why would we need an advocate if we never sinned after salvation? The whole point of Jesus shedding His blood was to redeem us as we accepted His sacrifice. The whole reason we receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit is to confirm the fact that Jesus paid for our sins. The Holy Spirit does not come into a person who has NOT confessed their sins and Jesus as their Saviour.

God will hold you to these words whitestone. Remember the Pharisee and the tax collector? Luke 18:10-14;

[sup]10 [/sup]“Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. [sup]11 [/sup]The Pharisee stood and prayed like this to himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of mankind—swindlers, rogues, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. [sup]12 [/sup]I fast twice a week; I tithe all that I get.’ [sup]13 [/sup]The tax collector, however, standing at a distance, would not even raise his eyes to heaven, but kept beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ [sup]14 [/sup]I tell you, this man went down to his house upright in the sight of God, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”​

THIS, is the actual word of Christ.

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(Luk 4:8)

And Jesus answering him said, `Get thee behind me, Adversary, for it hath been written, Thou shalt bow before the Lord thy God, and Him only thou shalt serve.'

whitestone said:

(Luk 4:8)

And Jesus answering him said, `Get thee behind me, Adversary, for it hath been written, Thou shalt bow before the Lord thy God, and Him only thou shalt serve.'

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LOL...yeh you don't sin at all!

Stan said:

LOL...yeh you don't sin at all!

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Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Your way of reading makes Jesus justify or tolerate sin in the flesh....certainly not condemn it.

You read but can't understand. So you rightly call yourself a sinner.

Episkopos said:

All that is not of faith is sin!

Is it possible to no longer sin through Christ? Yes!

But that one will be exibiting the same love as Christ did. One can never overcome sin by trying to overcome sin!

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Sorry but I disagree. It is impossible for sinful flesh to stop sinning. Even the scriptures you say you believe tell you that if a man says he has no sin then the truth is not in him.

RichardBurger said:

Sorry but I disagree. It is impossible for sinful flesh to stop sinning. Even the scriptures you say you believe tell you that if a man says he has no sin then the truth is not in him.

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That is one verse...then you shut your eyes to the others that say that in Christ there is no sin. All have sinned...we know this...why can't you move on from there?

Will the body of Christ ever become one?

Not until we grow into maturity. (I include myself).

Reading the last few posts, is like listening to primary school kids boasting about who's dad is bigger and best.

Is this the public face of Christianity?

My apoligies to the more mature.

Hi biggandyy,

Without the law there is no sin.

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That was before Moses, during the time Paul refers to in Rom 5:14. It never applied to Christians, and still doesn't.

You have the meaning of that verse bass-ackwards... it is Paul pre-emptively answering the objection that before there was the Law there was no sin. Paul is saying even if the Law was never given we would still be judged as sinners because of the Law written on our hearts.

Yies1 said:

Will the body of Christ ever become one?

Not until we grow into maturity. (I include myself).

Reading the last few posts, is like listening to primary school kids boasting about who's dad is bigger and best.

Is this the public face of Christianity?

My apologies to the more mature.

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Unfortunately Yies, it is man's pride that does this to us. Paul addressed the way men tend to get.
1 Timothy 2:8
Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing.

The biggest help in forums like this, is to remain cool brother. B)

Hi biggandyy,

You have the meaning of that verse bass-ackwards... it is Paul pre-emptively answering the objection that before there was the Law there was no sin. Paul is saying even if the Law was never given we would still be judged as sinners because of the Law written on our hearts.

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Please quote the verse containing the objection?

Btw, I don't think I have the verse backwards. You gave no context at all, and now you're objecting to the context of scripture?