Debate with Veteran

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TheWarIs1

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Dec 11, 2009
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Greetings Vet

I wanted to reopen a thread we discussed on the lost tribes and the two sticks in Ezekiel being joined together.


I said the two sticks were joined and in the Coat or Arms of England and Scotland showed these two together and under Christ the top Lion wearing a Royal Diadem.
You responded that this would be when they all return to the Mountains of Israel under one ruler which is Christ., I believe you replied..
While that made sense I recently was thinking about this while studying and reading this scriptures again and wanted to run this by you..


Israel was in Palestine when the following was written

2Sa 7:10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

Yahweh was going to pluck up Israel and move them where they would Move no more.
That was Jeremiahs mission I believe to pluck up and replant.

So with this idea of the Israel in the Isles and moving no more nor will they have to contend with all the fighting around Palestine.
It would appear that they will not return to Israel of old in Palestine because his people will move no more.
Therefore the two sticks are joined under Christ just like they are depicted in the Coat of Arms in Scotland and England yes?

I have certainly not set out to prove you wrong but Yah's people don't need to be returning to the old Land seeing how it says they will move no more.
I just wanted to see if maybe you agree with this idea that Israel was planted by Jeremiah in the Isles and will not need to move back to Palestine and the two sticks were joined as I said before.



Abraham's descendant will have all of Palestine and more later on as promised, I believe during the millennium but there is no need to move Yahwehs people who are settled in the isles and scattered all over the globe.



any other opinions are welcome.



Isa 24:15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.

There they are and will move no more
Yah Blessed the British his Covenant people


.
 

TheWarIs1

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Dec 11, 2009
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God's covenant people, those of the promise, are those in Christ. :)
Yes of course but you're missing something here.
Israel is his covenant people and are doing his will even if more than half are living in sin.
but where is Israel:? In Britain in the Isles of the sea


Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Hosea 13:!4
Yah will ransom his people from the grave and destroy Gehenna

Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.


Yahweh has provided his salvation for all Israel.
 

TheWarIs1

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Dec 11, 2009
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So those in Britain are those in Christ?

I think you're confusing Britain with Christ, here! ;)
No you're confusing the entire issue.

You see Israel was plucked and replanted in the Isles of the sea and shall never moved again it says.

Yahwehs people of his covenant are not all followers of Christ.
but they still belong to Israel

All Israel is to be saved, period, as told to Abraham for his faith in Yahweh.
It doesn't matter what they do or who doesn't believe if they are part of Abraham than they shall be saved.
Christ died for all of them. He is the ransom of Hosea 13

If you study Hosea13 you will see that Ephraim and his people died serving BAAL.
Their sins has piled up. But Yahweh says he will make a ransom for them.
He will save them from death and then destroy death.
Hallelujah!



IS 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation:

read this an think on these words. Forget what you've been led to believe.
Meditate on the words here
 

Prentis

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May 25, 2011
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What then, of this?

For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. [sup]7[/sup] Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children.

Gal 3
[sup]16[/sup] The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[sup][a][/sup] meaning one person, who is Christ. ..... [sup]29[/sup] If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Greetings Vet

I wanted to reopen a thread we discussed on the lost tribes and the two sticks in Ezekiel being joined together.


I said the two sticks were joined and in the Coat or Arms of England and Scotland showed these two together and under Christ the top Lion wearing a Royal Diadem.
You responded that this would be when they all return to the Mountains of Israel under one ruler which is Christ., I believe you replied..
While that made sense I recently was thinking about this while studying and reading this scriptures again and wanted to run this by you..


Israel was in Palestine when the following was written

2Sa 7:10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

Yahweh was going to pluck up Israel and move them where they would Move no more.
That was Jeremiahs mission I believe to pluck up and replant.

So with this idea of the Israel in the Isles and moving no more nor will they have to contend with all the fighting around Palestine.
It would appear that they will not return to Israel of old in Palestine because his people will move no more.
Therefore the two sticks are joined under Christ just like they are depicted in the Coat of Arms in Scotland and England yes?

I have certainly not set out to prove you wrong but Yah's people don't need to be returning to the old Land seeing how it says they will move no more.
I just wanted to see if maybe you agree with this idea that Israel was planted by Jeremiah in the Isles and will not need to move back to Palestine and the two sticks were joined as I said before.



Abraham's descendant will have all of Palestine and more later on as promised, I believe during the millennium but there is no need to move Yahwehs people who are settled in the isles and scattered all over the globe.



any other opinions are welcome.



Isa 24:15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.

There they are and will move no more
Yah Blessed the British his Covenant people
.


Here's the 1 Chron.17 version of what God told David through His prophet Nathan...

1 Chr 17:7-15
7 Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto My servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over My people Israel:
8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth.
9 Also I will ordain a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build thee an house.
11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build Me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be My son: and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in Mine house and in My kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
(KJV)

Note the underlined part about David's throne. We know that isn't about David's days, since God was giving that for a time after David would die. We know that's not about David's son Solomon and the temple he built, for God rent the kingdom from Solomon because of allowing idolatry among Israel. So who's left? It's about our Lord Jesus Christ, God's House being settled with Him, and in His Kingdom forever, with His throne established forevermore. It's about Christ's future eternal reign on David's throne.

So when is that supposed to occur? At the 7th Trumpet when Christ will gather His Church to the holy lands of promise. Ezekiel 37 makes the point about the specific land in the middleast being the area of inheritance to Israel, since that's the land which God first promised to Jacob (Ezek.37:25). So today's planting is only a temporary one.

So with this idea of the Israel in the Isles and moving no more nor will they have to contend with all the fighting around Palestine.
It would appear that they will not return to Israel of old in Palestine because his people will move no more.
Therefore the two sticks are joined under Christ just like they are depicted in the Coat of Arms in Scotland and England yes?
.

Remember we talked of how that coat of arms is about the 'house of David' joined with 'Ephraim', and not the 'stick of Judah' joined with 'Ephraim'? and how the "house of Judah" is still without a king?
 

TheWarIs1

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Dec 11, 2009
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Here's the 1 Chron.17 version of what God told David through His prophet Nathan...

1 Chr 17:7-15
7 Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto My servant David, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I took thee from the sheepcote, even from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be ruler over My people Israel:
8 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou hast walked, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee, and have made thee a name like the name of the great men that are in the earth.
9 Also I will ordain a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, and they shall dwell in their place, and shall be moved no more; neither shall the children of wickedness waste them any more, as at the beginning,
10 And since the time that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel. Moreover I will subdue all thine enemies. Furthermore I tell thee that the LORD will build thee an house.
11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.
12 He shall build Me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.
13 I will be his father, and he shall be My son: and I will not take My mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:
14 But I will settle him in Mine house and in My kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
15 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.
(KJV)

Note the underlined part about David's throne. We know that isn't about David's days, since God was giving that for a time after David would die. We know that's not about David's son Solomon and the temple he built, for God rent the kingdom from Solomon because of allowing idolatry among Israel. So who's left? It's about our Lord Jesus Christ, God's House being settled with Him, and in His Kingdom forever, with His throne established forevermore. It's about Christ's future eternal reign on David's throne.

So when is that supposed to occur? At the 7th Trumpet when Christ will gather His Church to the holy lands of promise. Ezekiel 37 makes the point about the specific land in the middleast being the area of inheritance to Israel, since that's the land which God first promised to Jacob (Ezek.37:25). So today's planting is only a temporary one.



Remember we talked of how that coat of arms is about the 'house of David' joined with 'Ephraim', and not the 'stick of Judah' joined with 'Ephraim'? and how the "house of Judah" is still without a king?
"He shall build Me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever."
Forever isn't necessarily connected with the house but the throne for sure. The Throne is in England and has been for over 2000 years, Christ is the head of his church which is rooted there.
IF Christ rules over his people he would certainly be over the B'rit Ish, his covenant people, the people in the Isle that will move no more.
And he sits on top wearing the royal diadem and holding two double edged swords.

I don't believe in bible contradictions and I doubt you do. We know there must be a good explanation.
I know the promises were for Abraham's seed to have all of Palestine and much more and I believe they will during the millennium reign of Christ.


There is two scriptures (2 = confirmation) which plainly state "and shall be moved no more"


Yahs chosen are scattered to all parts of the globe but the main people of the covenant with the throne is in the Isles where they will move no more. correct?

After the breech of Zarah and Pharez was repaired this union of JACK developed in Scotland and later in lower England among Saxons too


coas1-1.jpg


This Coat of Arms reveals Christ(Lion of Judah) on top as ruler over the Union of Jack (Anglicized Jacob) the Lion and Unicorn together(Ephraim and Judah), with the Harp of David and the last letter of Hebrew which was the X& .



"And they shall move no more"
That is not temporary.
It just seems so perfect to me.

The Mark of Yah on the forehead was his mark of protection and these X & symbols made that mark, imo.
The banner over the the Ruling Lion on Top declares the Protection or Defense of this Union.
They can not ever be defeated by an enemy. But it seems they may be oppressed by a sinister one.


The house of Judah is was involved in the repair of the breech between Zarah and Pharez which occurred in Ireland and Scotland with Zedekiah's daughters and Kings of Zarah..

Many of those calling themselves Judah today are not and fulfill Rev 2:9 & 3:9'
Either way is a interesting topic. I'm fascinated with this hidden things.


there is little doubt that Abraham's seed will inherit all of Palestine to the Euphrates river after his second coming and much more.
Israel can remain in the Isles and move no more while a another house is built in old Palestine and settle both issues?
The throne has been established in the Isles longer than it has in Palestine and is ruled by Christ who rules his church.
Think on this.

Shlama

.
 

TheWarIs1

New Member
Dec 11, 2009
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What then, of this?

For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. [sup]7[/sup] Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children.

Gal 3
[sup]16[/sup] The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[sup][a][/sup] meaning one person, who is Christ. ..... [sup]29[/sup] If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
That's true but all Israel shall be saved is a different idea altogether.

Kinsmen redeemer was of the same idea of saving All Israel.
All Israel shall be saved isn't talking about the seed of Abraham that is Christ but he is the kinsmen redeemer.
He will save his kinsmen.



Study Hosea 13 carefully
Ephraims people were BAAL worshipers who sacrificed their children to BAAL and died in their sins. 13:1 and early chapters


Hos 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.
Repentance shall be hid from mine eyes, it is talking about Death and the grave(hell) won't be able to repent and will be destroyed.. Not Ephraim and his people.

The Ransom is Yahushua Hamashiach who paid the price for the dead and the very next mention of Ransom is in Mathew and talking about Christ as a Ransom for many.


Mat 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Notice the word that was used in Titus. >> ALL


shlama
(Peace n Aramaic)
the language of Yahushua
.
 

Vengle

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Sep 22, 2011
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One Way:

2 Corinthians 5:14 "For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 ¶Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God."

:eek:
 

veteran

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Aug 6, 2010
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Southeast USA
"He shall build Me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever."
Forever isn't necessarily connected with the house but the throne for sure. The Throne is in England and has been for over 2000 years, Christ is the head of his church which is rooted there.
IF Christ rules over his people he would certainly be over the B'rit Ish, his covenant people, the people in the Isle that will move no more.
And he sits on top wearing the royal diadem and holding two double edged swords.

I don't believe in bible contradictions and I doubt you do. We know there must be a good explanation.
I know the promises were for Abraham's seed to have all of Palestine and much more and I believe they will during the millennium reign of Christ.


There is two scriptures (2 = confirmation) which plainly state "and shall be moved no more"


Yahs chosen are scattered to all parts of the globe but the main people of the covenant with the throne is in the Isles where they will move no more. correct?

After the breech of Zarah and Pharez was repaired this union of JACK developed in Scotland and later in lower England among Saxons too


coas1-1.jpg


This Coat of Arms reveals Christ(Lion of Judah) on top as ruler over the Union of Jack (Anglicized Jacob) the Lion and Unicorn together(Ephraim and Judah), with the Harp of David and the last letter of Hebrew which was the X& .



"And they shall move no more"
That is not temporary.
It just seems so perfect to me.

The Mark of Yah on the forehead was his mark of protection and these X & symbols made that mark, imo.
The banner over the the Ruling Lion on Top declares the Protection or Defense of this Union.
They can not ever be defeated by an enemy. But it seems they may be oppressed by a sinister one.


The house of Judah is was involved in the repair of the breech between Zarah and Pharez which occurred in Ireland and Scotland with Zedekiah's daughters and Kings of Zarah..

Many of those calling themselves Judah today are not and fulfill Rev 2:9 & 3:9'
Either way is a interesting topic. I'm fascinated with this hidden things.


there is little doubt that Abraham's seed will inherit all of Palestine to the Euphrates river after his second coming and much more.
Israel can remain in the Isles and move no more while a another house is built in old Palestine and settle both issues?
The throne has been established in the Isles longer than it has in Palestine and is ruled by Christ who rules his church.
Think on this.

Shlama

.


Knowing what you do, I'd say I have no need to quote to you all the Old Testament and New Testament prophecies not fulfilled yet about the gathering of believing Israel back to the holy land under Christ in final. Ezekiel 47-48 gives their Millennial layout. The end of Isaiah 19 is an important one involving Israel's establishing back in the land as one third, along with Egypt and Assyria, with God's highway connecting them. So there's some specifics in the prophecies that connect the gathering back to those lands, and with some earth changes that God causes.

For those not familiar with Israel's gathering, it's very true that they MUST accept The Saviour Jesus Christ also to be saved. But as we can see how God has Divinely Intervened with His chosen Israel through history, He has preserved a remnant in Christ that is like the apple of His eye. And Ezek.44 about the priests of Levi that went astray when Israel went astray, we're shown there they will bear their iniquity, but still... serve the people as ministers of the Millennium Sanctuary. So that should be kept in perspective, because it's pointing to many of the seed of Israel being blinded for this present world, and then with their blindness removed. If one of blinded Israel has been zealous to God even while still refusing Christ today, when their blindness is removed at Christ's coming, it wouldn't be difficult to realize those will quickly believe and appear in shame, repenting. So like Paul says, judge nothing before the time until Christ comes (1 Cor.4:5).
 

Vengle

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Sep 22, 2011
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Knowing what you do, I'd say I have no need to quote to you all the Old Testament and New Testament prophecies not fulfilled yet about the gathering of believing Israel back to the holy land under Christ in final. Ezekiel 47-48 gives their Millennial layout. The end of Isaiah 19 is an important one involving Israel's establishing back in the land as one third, along with Egypt and Assyria, with God's highway connecting them. So there's some specifics in the prophecies that connect the gathering back to those lands, and with some earth changes that God causes.

For those not familiar with Israel's gathering, it's very true that they MUST accept The Saviour Jesus Christ also to be saved. But as we can see how God has Divinely Intervened with His chosen Israel through history, He has preserved a remnant in Christ that is like the apple of His eye. And Ezek.44 about the priests of Levi that went astray when Israel went astray, we're shown there they will bear their iniquity, but still... serve the people as ministers of the Millennium Sanctuary. So that should be kept in perspective, because it's pointing to many of the seed of Israel being blinded for this present world, and then with their blindness removed. If one of blinded Israel has been zealous to God even while still refusing Christ today, when their blindness is removed at Christ's coming, it wouldn't be difficult to realize those will quickly believe and appear in shame, repenting. So like Paul says, judge nothing before the time until Christ comes (1 Cor.4:5).

The only problem I have with that is you speak more confidently than Paul who said, Romans 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."

Romans 11:13 "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them."

The saving of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel scattered abroad began with Paul's ministry in his day.

When Paul said that in that manner all Israel would be saved he meant through each generation beginning with that generation a remnant would be enticed to jealousy so as to repent and come into Christ where there is nether Jew nor Greek .....

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

I know from my own experience how what one believes is what one will see. And it will always seem right and seem to be well supported in the mind of the one who believes it.

That is why it puzzles people that others do not see what they see.

It is not an end time prophecy as you have it made to be in your mind. And those OT citations have other meaning than what you see.

To clarify my last remark: You see the en times as only our day. The end time is the entire church age.

1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
Yes, the last time was then and continues until now.
 

TheWarIs1

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Dec 11, 2009
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The only problem I have with that is you speak more confidently than Paul who said, Romans 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."

Romans 11:13 "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them."

The saving of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel scattered abroad began with Paul's ministry in his day.

When Paul said that in that manner all Israel would be saved he meant through each generation beginning with that generation a remnant would be enticed to jealousy so as to repent and come into Christ where there is nether Jew nor Greek .....

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

I know from my own experience how what one believes is what one will see. And it will always seem right and seem to be well supported in the mind of the one who believes it.

That is why it puzzles people that others do not see what they see.

It is not an end time prophecy as you have it made to be in your mind. And those OT citations have other meaning than what you see.

To clarify my last remark: You see the en times as only our day. The end time is the entire church age.

1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
Yes, the last time was then and continues until now.
Vet is well studied.
And we must all study to show ourselves approved.

I don't find him more confident than Paul and he is very familiar with the lost sheep who of the Anglo Saxon world.

It may take some more studying on either part to see the others side. It's simple disagreement at the moment but it can mean a great deal on it's own.
the coat of arms seems so perfect in it's display of the Union of Jacob which is Judah and Ephraim, symbolically joined.
There are other tribes among England.

We can never always agree or see eye to eye.
but we must strive to be united and learn from each other.

as usual it's been a respectable discourse with Vet.

Shalma
Salutes to our Brothers in the Lord!
 

Israelsson

Israelsson
Sep 18, 2011
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Down here in Satan's kingdom (Earth)
Greetings Vet

I wanted to reopen a thread we discussed on the lost tribes and the two sticks in Ezekiel being joined together.


I said the two sticks were joined and in the Coat or Arms of England and Scotland showed these two together and under Christ the top Lion wearing a Royal Diadem.
You responded that this would be when they all return to the Mountains of Israel under one ruler which is Christ., I believe you replied..
While that made sense I recently was thinking about this while studying and reading this scriptures again and wanted to run this by you..


Israel was in Palestine when the following was written

2Sa 7:10 Moreover I will appoint a place for my people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in a place of their own, and move no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as beforetime,

Yahweh was going to pluck up Israel and move them where they would Move no more.
That was Jeremiahs mission I believe to pluck up and replant.

So with this idea of the Israel in the Isles and moving no more nor will they have to contend with all the fighting around Palestine.
It would appear that they will not return to Israel of old in Palestine because his people will move no more.
Therefore the two sticks are joined under Christ just like they are depicted in the Coat of Arms in Scotland and England yes?

I have certainly not set out to prove you wrong but Yah's people don't need to be returning to the old Land seeing how it says they will move no more.
I just wanted to see if maybe you agree with this idea that Israel was planted by Jeremiah in the Isles and will not need to move back to Palestine and the two sticks were joined as I said before.



Abraham's descendant will have all of Palestine and more later on as promised, I believe during the millennium but there is no need to move Yahwehs people who are settled in the isles and scattered all over the globe.



any other opinions are welcome.



Isa 24:15 Wherefore glorify ye the LORD in the fires, even the name of the LORD God of Israel in the isles of the sea.

There they are and will move no more
Yah Blessed the British his Covenant people


.
The word 'British' is of interest to me. Like many other English words, the term is based from two Hebrew words. "B'rith" - covenent and "Ish" -
man. So B'rith-Ish would be a 'covenant man'. Its like the Welsh languange, based very strongly on Hebrew as well.
 

TheWarIs1

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Dec 11, 2009
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The word 'British' is of interest to me. Like many other English words, the term is based from two Hebrew words. "B'rith" - covenent and "Ish" -
man. So B'rith-Ish would be a 'covenant man'. Its like the Welsh languange, based very strongly on Hebrew as well.
Yes. the marks on he British flag is believed to be the mark of Yahs protection.
 

veteran

New Member
Aug 6, 2010
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0
Southeast USA
The only problem I have with that is you speak more confidently than Paul who said, Romans 10:1 "Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."

Romans 11:13 "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them."

The saving of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel scattered abroad began with Paul's ministry in his day.

When Paul said that in that manner all Israel would be saved he meant through each generation beginning with that generation a remnant would be enticed to jealousy so as to repent and come into Christ where there is nether Jew nor Greek .....

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

I know from my own experience how what one believes is what one will see. And it will always seem right and seem to be well supported in the mind of the one who believes it.

That is why it puzzles people that others do not see what they see.

It is not an end time prophecy as you have it made to be in your mind. And those OT citations have other meaning than what you see.

To clarify my last remark: You see the en times as only our day. The end time is the entire church age.

1 John 2:18 "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
Yes, the last time was then and continues until now.


What I see is from a perspective of both Old and New Testament prophecies given, involving both Israel and Gentiles.

That also includes the time of Christ's FUTURE "thousand years" reign with His elect at Jerusalem, where the "camp of the saints" will be established per Rev.20 also. It will be a time of correction upon all nations except for Christ's elect that rule with a "rod of iron" with Him. Apostle Paul did not go against any of that. Ezekiel 47-48 has the twelve tribes of Israel established back in the holy lands of promise for that Millennium period to show that God will keep His promises to them. By His showing us about the rebellious priests of Levi in Ezekiel 44 bearing their iniquity but still as ministers to the people, that is showing He has not completely cast away blinded Israel either. And that's what Apostle Paul was referring to in Rom.11 when he quoted from Isaiah...

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(KJV)

Because Paul quoted that from Isaiah, we're supposed to go back in the Book of Isaiah where he quoted that from, and read, for there's more there...

Isa 59:20-21
20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21 As for Me, this is My covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and My words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
(KJV)

Fact is, we don't yet know how many of the unbelieving seed of Israel will turn to Christ Jesus, for the fullness of the Gentiles is not yet, which is when unbelieving Israel's blindness is to be removed per Rom.11:25. So like I said from Paul, judge nothing until the time.


But what 'The WarIs1' is speaking of is the idea that some of God's final promises regarding Israel has already come to pass, especially involving the throne of David which Christ is still yet to inherit.

Ezek 21:26-27
26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
(KJV)

That He that is to come is our Lord Jesus Christ. The removing of the diadem began with Zedekiah, king of Judah during the time of Nebuchadnezzar. Zedekiah was the first 'overturn' of David's throne, then it was planted somewhere else on earth. Then it was overturned twice more since, and not to be overturned again until Christ comes to inherit it (Gen.49:10).

Along with that promise about David's throne includes God promise to join both the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) and the "house of Judah" (Jews) together again, back to the holy lands of promise, as in the days of old (Ezek.37). That's specifically what the Ezek.47-48 prophecy is about with showing their layout back to the holy land. That's to occur at Christ's second coming, for He is Who is to gather them, and us.
 

TheWarIs1

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Fact is, we don't yet know how many of the unbelieving seed of Israel will turn to Christ Jesus, for the fullness of the Gentiles is not yet, which is when unbelieving Israel's blindness is to be removed per Rom.11:25. So like I said from Paul, judge nothing until the time.


But what 'The WarIs1' is speaking of is the idea that some of God's final promises regarding Israel has already come to pass, especially involving the throne of David which Christ is still yet to inherit.

Ezek 21:26-27
26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.
(KJV)

That He that is to come is our Lord Jesus Christ. The removing of the diadem began with Zedekiah, king of Judah during the time of Nebuchadnezzar. Zedekiah was the first 'overturn' of David's throne, then it was planted somewhere else on earth. Then it was overturned twice more since, and not to be overturned again until Christ comes to inherit it (Gen.49:10).

Along with that promise about David's throne includes God promise to join both the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) and the "house of Judah" (Jews) together again, back to the holy lands of promise, as in the days of old (Ezek.37). That's specifically what the Ezek.47-48 prophecy is about with showing their layout back to the holy land. That's to occur at Christ's second coming, for He is Who is to gather them, and us.
Ezekiel is referring to the land that was given to Jacob and your Fathers is definitely in the land of Canaan. Even tho Jacobs seed did take Britain and will move no more.
Thy symbolism of the coat of arms still seems like a perfect union of Jack(Jacob) and the Union Jack is of Jacob.

Christ is at the top and ruling over his people as the head of his church is that sense.
It is possible that he made Israel of the Isles(britain) one for now and then he will also later in the land of Canaan?


Ez 37 ..... says David will come to rule. Is that an idiom for son of David?
It talks like literal David will rule again, to the age.


I am having a hard time believe that their many members of Judah are in the Jew group today.
I suppose a remnant could be but they seem so different.
 

Vengle

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The Bible indicates that the Jewish nation lost God’s favor and protection when they rejected his Son, Jesus Christ. (Acts 3:13, 14, 19) Jesus himself plainly told them: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.”—Matthew 21:43. (Compare Matthew 8:11-12)

Paul wrote, ‘I ask then, Did God reject his people? By no means!’ (Romans 11:1; NIV.)” Now it is at this point that most readers fail to consider the rest of that verse: “For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.” What did Paul mean by that last part of what he said?

He basically told those gentiles who acted as though God had completely rejected that Jewish nation causing them to preach half heartedly if at all to anyone from that nation, “Hey I am a Jew and a late convert to Christianity and if there was me there must be others.

Paul could not have believed that the Israelites as a nation still had a special place with God, for the apostle expressed “great grief and unceasing pain in [his] heart” over their unresponsiveness to God’s goodness. (Romans 9:2-5) At Romans 9:6 Paul adds: “However, it is not as though the word of God [to Abraham] had failed. For not all who spring from [natural] Israel are really ‘Israel.’” Note what Paul is saying: that because the Jews rejected Christ, God no longer considered them to be Israel! The anointed congregation of Jesus Christ’s followers was now the real “Israel,” the instrument through which God would bless all mankind.—1 Peter 2:9; Galatians 3:29; 6:16; Genesis 22:18.

God, though, did not reject the Jewish people as individuals, for Paul pointed out: “For I also am an Israelite.” Yes, individuals within the Jewish nation, like Paul, could become part of spiritual Israel if they accepted Christ. Only “a remnant,” a minority, chose to do so.—Romans 11:1, 5.

_______________________________________________________________________________

So what about Paul’s speaking of the natural branches being grafted back in and his saying, Romans 11:25, 26: “A dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved.”

Ponder the first five paragraphs here above the line and I will be back to explain the rest shortly.
 

veteran

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The Bible indicates that the Jewish nation lost God’s favor and protection when they rejected his Son, Jesus Christ. (Acts 3:13, 14, 19) Jesus himself plainly told them: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.”—Matthew 21:43. (Compare Matthew 8:11-12)

Truly, The Bible does not really indicate that Israel as a people fell out of God's favour regarding The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That kind of idea comes from a topical study of The Bible popular among men's traditions. Real Bible study involves the histories of the Old Testament Books to know just 'who' our Lord Jesus and His Apostles were really addressing regarding the unbelieving Jews.

Short Summary of OT History That Reveals This:
1. The MAJORITY of Israelites at the time of Christ's first coming WERE NOT EVEN IN THE HOLY LAND. Then ten tribes of Israel had already been scattered through the countries, likewise with the majority of Judah. Per Ezra 2, only a small remnant of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and very few of Levi returned to Jerusalem to build the 2nd temple and city, and many, many foreigners returned with them, which a lot of those foreigners had become priests among them (Nethinims).

2. Per Bible history, and secular history, the lost ten tribes captive to Assyria and the land of Medes migrated out of it in stages, westward into Asia Minor and Europe, and became the western nations. The missing link to Cimmerians as ten tribe Israelites was discovered in the 1930's by Leroy Waterman at the University of Michigan in his translation from the Assyrian Tablets. In Scotland's Declaration of Arbroath in 1320, they described how they were descendents of Israel.

3. This means that "nation" of Matt.21 in Christ's parable of the husbandmen which He said He would given His vineyard to, involves those ten lost tribe Israelites scattered to the West. And the believing Gentiles would be part of that, The Gospel going to them also. Many of those ten lost tribe Israelites today still... think they are Gentiles when they are not. They lost their heritage as part of Israel (house of Israel), and became as Gentiles, living among Gentiles. Their scattering was per God's promise of Deut.4 & 28 for not following Him. Another shocker, per Isaiah 5, the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) ARE that "vineyard". So it doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to understand our Lord Jesus was specifically talking about Jews that were put in charge of God's vineyard, and that's who the majority of God's people of Israel were taken away from.



Paul wrote, ‘I ask then, Did God reject his people? By no means!’ (Romans 11:1; NIV.)” Now it is at this point that most readers fail to consider the rest of that verse: “For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.” What did Paul mean by that last part of what he said?

He basically told those gentiles who acted as though God had completely rejected that Jewish nation causing them to preach half heartedly if at all to anyone from that nation, “Hey I am a Jew and a late convert to Christianity and if there was me there must be others.

You're kind of misrepresenting what Paul taught in those Rom.11:1-5, for Paul specifically said that God has not cast away His people which He foreknew. Then Paul compared an existing remnant of believing Israel in his day to what God told Elijah about having preserved 7,000 to Himself that had not bowed the knee to Baal. Paul even called that believing remnant of Israel, the remnant according the election of grace. Per history, that remnant involved the founders of the western Christian nations, so their number is as many as the sands of the sea, and stars of the sky, which shows how God fulfilled His promise to Abraham about the seed of Israel. For the remaining branch of Israelites, they were 'blinded' by God Himself, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. We know those today as being mostly the Jews, which represent the "house of Judah" per God's Word, of only the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi.

Study all your Bible, and you'll begin to know all this.



Paul could not have believed that the Israelites as a nation still had a special place with God, for the apostle expressed “great grief and unceasing pain in [his] heart” over their unresponsiveness to God’s goodness. (Romans 9:2-5) At Romans 9:6 Paul adds: “However, it is not as though the word of God [to Abraham] had failed. For not all who spring from [natural] Israel are really ‘Israel.’” Note what Paul is saying: that because the Jews rejected Christ, God no longer considered them to be Israel! The anointed congregation of Jesus Christ’s followers was now the real “Israel,” the instrument through which God would bless all mankind.—1 Peter 2:9; Galatians 3:29; 6:16; Genesis 22:18.

That's Replacement Theology, plain and simple. It's men's attempt to replace the seed of Israel with believing Gentiles, when God never cut off all the branches of the seed of Israel in the first place. The remnant of the seed of Israel according to God's election of grace became the start of Christ's Church. And then The Gospel was preached in Asia Minor and Europe to both ten tribe Israelites, scattered Judah, and Gentiles, all at the same time, and they became part of Christ's Church that way. James specifically addressed all twelve tribes scattered abroad in his Epistle, showing he knew what about the majority of the seed of Israel in his day? that the majority of them were still scattered abroad, out of the holy land. The Jewish historian Josephus confirmed this also in his day (100 A.D.).


God, though, did not reject the Jewish people as individuals, for Paul pointed out: “For I also am an Israelite.” Yes, individuals within the Jewish nation, like Paul, could become part of spiritual Israel if they accepted Christ. Only “a remnant,” a minority, chose to do so.—Romans 11:1, 5.

I'll bet you don't really know just why Paul said he was both of the tribe of Benjamin and a Jew? You'd have to know your Old Testament history first to understand that, starting around 1 Kings 11 forward. I did a ten lost tribes coverage of the 1 & 2 Kings chapters relating to that; it's in the ten tribes section on this forum.



_______________________________________________________________________________

So what about Paul’s speaking of the natural branches being grafted back in and his saying, Romans 11:25, 26: “A dulling of sensibilities has happened in part to Israel until the full number of people of the nations has come in, and in this manner all Israel will be saved.”

Ponder the first five paragraphs here above the line and I will be back to explain the rest shortly.

You may have some modifications to do brother before you continue that. But this last part you have correct. When God removes blindness upon the unbelieving portions of Israel, then I have little doubt that most of them will believe on our Lord Jesus Christ. But the "crept in unawares" that say they are Jews, but are not, and are the "synagogue of Satan", those were never of Israelite origin to begin with, and a lot of those call themselves Jews. I suspect most of those will still... continue to refuse Christ Jesus in that time.