Spiritual revelation is required to believe spiritual truths

Hi John,
I agree with you. My understanding may differ, or it may not and we are essentially saying the same thing. Here is how I see it. I believe that no mortal human can ever override God's will. God does the choosing as stated in Matt 22:14, John 15:16, John 6:70 and John 6:44 and also as you stated, the parables. So God does the calling/drawing/invite. This is the point where our free will kicks in, we either reject or accept the invitation. What kind of ground was the seed planted in? Only the seed planted in good soil will go all the way. Those people will turn from the sewer of this world. They put there hand on the plow, but they DO NOT look back. These are the few chosen of the many called. Yeshua said he spoke plainly, and he did, but you have to have the eyes to see and ears to hear.

John Zain said:

4 -- Many supposed born-again Christians just do not have “eyes to see” the Trinity Scriptures.

5 -- Many born-again Christians just do not have the revelation that
the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the 9 spiritual gifts are still for today.

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With all respect John ... this appears as just one more way of boasting that the "charismatic - pentecostals" are "something special" and "they alone" have the proper "Spirit filling".

And the rest of the Christians are severely lacking those same talents and are probably not "real Christians" anyway.

Right John ?

Best wishes.

spirtual truths are like a foreign language, you need a interpreter.

Arnie Manitoba said:

With all respect John ... this appears as just one more way of boasting that the "charismatic - pentecostals" are "something special" and "they alone" have the proper "Spirit filling".

And the rest of the Christians are severely lacking those same talents and are probably not "real Christians" anyway.

Right John ?

Best wishes.

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That's what his words say to me too.

Funny how Paul showed that the Holy Spirit gift of languages is one of the least spiritual gifts in his comparison, and some who claim it fail miserably in understanding much of God's Word, especially for the end of days.

John Zain said:

This baptism is strictly Jesus' ANOINTING for special service to His kingdom,
which is very similar to the OT where God sent His Spirit UPON His prophets.

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Sorry .... but this is simply more boasting.

I hear this continually from the charismatic - pentecostal folks. Yet the evidence is severely lacking to prove any "special anointing" for "special service"

To equate Old Testament Prophets to modern day charismatics is the biggest stretch yet.

Every OT prophecy came to pass exactly as predicted.

NONE of the pentecostal prophecies have. Yet they still come up with a new one every day.

The Holy Spirit would never be involved which such delusions of grandeur.

This is not a pentecostal thing it is plain and simple truth, the Holy Spirit bit that is.

Joh_14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

1Co_2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

The Holy Spirit is for any man who asks, ask and you will receive, He is a gift to us from God, would you toss Him aside.

In All His Love

mjrhealth said:

Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

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I personally think that those who first believe, then recieve spiritual truth and better understanding. At least in my experience, I did not receive spiritual revelation prior to believing, but because I believed. I suspect that the Holy Spirit might present itself as an unction in everyone to some extent, but then only dwells with those who believe and except His Truth. JMO

Some of us have a calling, and received spiritual truth or a revelation from God before commiting to Christ. Many today who were once without Christ and living according to the world were 'shown'. That working is by The Holy Spirit even before the believer has commited to Christ Jesus. The working of The Holy Spirit through us is especially for doing Christ's work, and not to be used to form a social club.

mjrhealth said:

This is not a pentecostal thing it is plain and simple truth, the Holy Spirit bit that is.

Joh_14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh_15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

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Read John 14 & 15 again and ask yourself who is Jesus speaking to , and who is Jesus instructing.

Charismatic - Pentecostals are famous for miss-applying scripture as though it was meant for them.

The circus continues.

Arnie Manitoba said:

Read John 14 & 15 again and ask yourself who is Jesus speaking to , and who is Jesus instructing.

Charismatic - Pentecostals are famous for miss-applying scripture as though it was meant for them.

The circus continues.

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Hi! 'Arnie Manitoba'
Unfortunately, most of those who claim to have experienced the Baptism in the Holy Spirit are woefully unable to scripturally introduce it to others ... much less comprehend it sufficiently for themselves.
The near identical blur can be seen with the doctrine of the 'trinity' and the ideas behind the doctrines supporting geographical Israel.
But what should we expect? After all, while most boast of having escaped Babylon, they neglected to leave their tattered and false luggage behind and now they again open them and boast of their learned possessions.
We all must come to a desperate place in our Christian lives; the place where we recognize the echo of our emptiness ... when we must throw our hands heavenwards and confess that Jesus not only loved us enough to die for us; He also loves us enough to lead us to the truth of His Word.
This is the only way of our discovering the path of escape from Babylon; the only way to obtain the unfolding of His Word for our Christian journey.
Anyways, anyone who reads Matthew 3:16 will note the following words: "and, lo, the heavens were opened". This was when Jesus was baptized in the Holy Spirit.
We should not allow those who must open scramble through their old Babylonian luggage to tell us what the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is; most of which they will be able to tell us will be inadequate at best.
Nevertheless, the experience is just as real and genuine as the experience of Repentance.

zain thanks i enjoy your comments

If the "so called" Spirit - filled - charismatic - Pentecostals took a real good look at themselves they would not like what they see.

Most of the modern day scandals come from their group.

Most of the false prophecies come from their group.

Most of the fake claims of healing come from their group.

Most of the exposed charlatans come from their group.

"God told me this" , "God told me that" , "God spoke to me today" , yada yada yada ....


But rather than examine their own unprovable claims .... they find it more convenient to find fault with all the "lesser Christians" who do not have the "same filling" they boast of.

I speak as an insider , I am pentecostal - charismatic , but every year I distance myself a little further from the nonsense.

I have been around "dead churches" who accomplish hundreds of times more good than the "great pretenders"

Just some observations. I have nothing personal against them. I have forgiven them for all the boasting crap they tried to lure me into.

When The Holy Spirit takes action it is something to behold and never brings mockery.

Boasting is boasting.

Learn the difference

John Zain said:

Arnie,

For cryin' out loud, man, find yourself a real honest small Spirit-filled church,
yes, which is Pentecostal or Charismatic, and have the best time of your life!
This is real Christianity, man ... the only real Christianity on da planet.

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I do and I have.

I love the music services and the outbursts of emotions prevalent in the charismatic churches.

It can be a great emotional lift in a gloomy world.

But I have never once confused those emotional worship feelings with works of the Holy Spirit.

Joy in the Spirit is one thing. The power of accomplishments by the Holy Spirit is something else and is usually absent in those circles.

But often the members do not even realize it. They are consumed with boasting and emotions.

John Zain said:

Please witness 5 major examples:

1 – In the OT, God personally revealed spiritual truth only to His prophets, not to the others.

2 -- God must provide a small seed of faith for one to believe the saving gospel of Jesus Christ.

3 -- Jesus spoke in parables so only those with “ears to hear” spiritual truth would believe it.

4 -- Many supposed born-again Christians just do not have “eyes to see” the Trinity Scriptures.

5 -- Many born-again Christians just do not have the revelation that
the baptism with the Holy Spirit and the 9 spiritual gifts are still for today.


Explanatory note for point 2 above:

God had His reasons for choosing whom He would elect before the foundation of the world.
IMO, there are 2 major types of born-again believers:
-- elect … guaranteed to be saved … overcomers who co-operate with the Holy Spirit in being sanctified.
-- non-elect … non-overcomers who do not co-operate with being sanctified, and will not be saved.

I believe this way because God’s many NT warnings are to believers (not to unbelievers),
and I do not believe they are lies or empty threats just to frighten believers into sanctification.

I am interested in your comments on these difficult topics.

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The devil would have everyone believe that the lying spirit in man is the spirit of God. So the devil makes up a false gospel that appeals to the vanity of man while fleecing them for monetary gain. Of course the vanity of man buys into it and spreads the false gospel until the false gospels has become the world christian religions of the day of wrath.

John Zain said:

Sure, what you say is true, but are you responding to something in the OP?
Satan doesn't even need to be the cause of some of the "feel-good" churches.
Church leaders can do that by themselves ... for the purpose you mentioned.
People'll pay big bucks for spiritual candy.

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Amen John Zain

I should have made it clear that I agree with your post.
It is most important to ask God for His Spirit to be guided into all truth.