Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh nature?

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TheHC

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Did you know that if the divine name had still been given it’s rightful place in Scripture, that the trinity could never have been introduced.
You are so right! I’ve often thought of that. It was a “master-stroke” of Satan, to influence the Jews to remove His Name, under the guise of “It’s too holy to pronounce”, what a crock! — See Malachi 3:16; Proverbs 18:10; etc, etc.

But accomplishing such an action — removing God’s Own Name, Yahweh, over 6800 times from the Scriptures & replacing it with “LORD” — tells us just to what extent Jehovah will allow His Word to be tampered with!

Truth wasn’t / isn’t lost, Jehovah would never allow that! It just requires more effort to dig, and also requires more reliance on the Truth of Jesus’ statement at Luke 10:21, that it is His Father (Jehovah / Yahweh) who ‘reveals’ Truth. Those who put their faith in a Trinity, fail to grasp the importance of Jesus’ words at Luke 10:21. And Malachi 3:16, Proverbs 18:10, and countless others!
 

TheHC

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Yet, you make contradictory statements regarding your beliefs, and you leave the conversation blaming the person that pointed them out to you, rather than face them head on.
Which ones? Point them out.

EDIT:

Oh you refer to ‘God’s capabilities’? Like, if He can die?
No. He’s “immortal”.

Enough said.
And you keep bringing up “physical death”, why? We’re talking spirits here, which has no bearing on ”physical” aspects.

Do you think physical is the only death there is?


Why are you limiting the concept of death to the physical?

Does God having limitations, somehow confound you? It shouldn’t…. God “cannot lie”, nor can He “act unjustly.” It’s not much of a stretch to believe that God also cannot die.


Maybe we should discuss ‘how many angels can dance on the head of a pin’?
 
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TheHC

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Refer back to post #98. Then, refer back to post #101 where I quote Aunty Jane using me as an excuse to avoid addressing my responses to things she said.
Addressed. See post #106, which I edited.
 

soberxp

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Firstly, the definition of the word "immortal" is "not subject to the limit of physical death and decay". God is immortal in spirit form, because spirits are incorporeal, and thus are not subject to the limit of physical death and decay, unlike mortal and corporeal beings.

Secondly, I actually asked @Aunty Jane if God is capable of becoming a human. She answered "yes" by stating that God is capable of anything. And, God as a human (mortal and corporeal) can undergo a physical (bodily) death. But, then she also says that God could not be a mortal, such as a human, which contradicts her previous statement. She didn't address that.

And, if a sinless human is the perfect equivalent of Adam as she also says, I asked her if God as a human would not be the perfect equivalent of Adam when He is sinless? She didn't answer "yes" or "no" to that.
Are the descendants of humans still human? And what are the descendants of God?

If you think that nailing the one true God to a cross is all it takes to save us, then that understanding is deeply flawed. If that were the case, we wouldn’t need a Bible from the one true God. He could have simply found a quiet place, hung Himself on a cross, and called it done.

But God went to great lengths—having Jesus Christ born of the virgin Mary—to show us the way of life. We are called to be sinless like Christ, for how else can we save ourselves? Sin leads to death.

Fear the Lord of God.
 
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soberxp

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Jesus is the Word that became flesh (human). Do you know why the Messiah and Redeemer that the Father sent was the Word Who became a human by the Holy Spirit, and was born of the Virgin, rather than a human conceived naturally by two human parents?
The Tree of Life is grafted on the Tree of Good and Evil and may grow the Fruit of life among others.
 

Aunty Jane

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The Tree of Life is grafted on the Tree of Good and Evil and may grow the Fruit of life among others.
This is an interesting concept, but can you provide some scriptural evidence for it?
To my understanding, the two trees represented two choices….opposite choices…..one leading to life and the other to death. Why would God graft one onto the other?

What did the TKGE represent? What did the eating of its fruit mean for humanity? Why did satan want the first humans to disobey God? What was his motive?

We are designed for everlasting life, not death. Death is as foreign to us now as it was in Eden. We fight to live and we mourn deeply for those we have lost to death, especially if the dying process was long and painful. Death was never meant to happen, but Adam sealed the fate of the entire human race when he joined his disobedient wife in taking something that the Creator had claimed was his own personal property.

They stole something from God and the penalty was death…..but this death was inheritable….so the ramifications would echo down through time, reinforcing our need to have this death sentence removed…..Jesus’ sacrifice paid the price to redeem us from Adam’s sin. That price was paid almost 2000 years ago….so why is death still hounding us today, more so that never before? How many lives are lost through deliberate human actions?

Do you have a big picture of where we are in the stream of time @soberxp ?
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Jesus’ sacrifice paid the price to redeem us from Adam’s sin. That price was paid almost 2000 years ago….so why is death still hounding us today, more so that never before? How many lives are lost through deliberate human actions?
I am not sure if this is a serious question, but God's time is best. Jesus will grant everlasting life to the faithful when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years, when he sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem.
2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

soberxp

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This is an interesting concept, but can you provide some scriptural evidence for it?
To my understanding, the two trees represented two choices….opposite choices…..one leading to life and the other to death. Why would God graft one onto the other?
Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.

Essentially, God is not allowed to graft seeds.

But since Satan could impose the tree of good and evil on Adam and Eve, God could also impose the tree of life on humanity.

But technically, it's not a mixture of two seeds.
There is only one seed can grow the Fruit of life.Those who follow Jesus Christ.

The Gospel of Matthew
13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

What did the TKGE represent? What did the eating of its fruit mean for humanity? Why did satan want the first humans to disobey God? What was his motive?
Because the first humans to disobey God,so everyone need to represent to obey God.
Eat it means disobey God.
Jesus Christ is the Fruit of life. If we eat it then we will obey the God.
Satan's motive comes from his cunning, if Satan is the ancient serpent, because God only made it cunning.
Do you have a big picture of where we are in the stream of time @soberxp ?
Between the second coming of Jesus and the Revelation.

The Gospel of Mark 13:32
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The Gospel of Luke 12:46
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

The Gospel of John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Romans 10:10
For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Revelation
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,

I am not sure if this is a serious question, but God's time is best.
I agree but this is something that bothered me before I started to study the Bible for myself….if Jesus died for us almost 2000 years ago…why is death still a tragic part of our lives? Why is the devil still so active in the world as it sinks ever deeper into a moral morass?

It was Peter who mentioned the way God views time…..

Using those who ridiculed Noah, Peter said to his audience….
2 Pet 3:5-10…
For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water. 7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. 9 Jehovah is not slow concerning his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance. 10 But Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be exposed.”

So, the answer I gleaned from the scriptures is indeed “God’s time”….he operates in a completely different timezone to us earth bound humans. A thousand of our years is just like one day to the eternal Creator.

And then when I realized that the first rebel was not human, it struck me why it was so…..the first rebel lives in God’s timezone, and would be dealt with in that timezone……we are the hostages in this battle between God and his adversary.
Jesus will grant everlasting life to the faithful when he returns to establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years, when he sits upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem.
I have a different take on that…..The Kingdom of God is a heavenly arrangement that meant taking some humans to heaven to rule with Christ in his Kingdom. These were to be “kings and priests” to rule with Christ for 1000 years. (Rev 20:6) They were also to be “resurrected” “first”. They are “bought from among mankind as firstfruits”. (Rev 14:1-5)

Jesus promised his disciples that he was “going to prepare a place” for them “in his Father’s house”, but they did not understand that this was in heaven. The earthly Temple was Jehovah’s House, but it was a “shadow” or ”type” of the reality which was in heaven. “New Jerusalem” is not on earth, and neither is Mt Zion..…these are now heavenly locations.

Those with a “heavenly calling” (Heb 3:1) are chosen by God for that very important role of ruling the redeemed earthly subjects of the heavenly Kingdom….they are seen bringing rulership to mankind on earth.

Rev 21:1-4…
”And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

The “former things” regarding man’s failed rulership of the earth, under influence from it’s god and ruler, will be gone forever, and a new rulership will take its place…..God will now rule his people through the Kingdom arrangement and bring all that we lost in Eden, back to us.

2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
Paul is one who had the “heavenly calling” as did the other apostles and most of Christ’s disciples back then…..he was facing death with a sure hope..…a crown of righteousness fit for a king.

These ‘kings and priests’ are chosen first, and resurrected first…..so that when Christ comes as judge, he will destroy all opposers to his incoming Kingdom, and it will be all ready to assume it’s rulership over redeemed mankind without delay. (Dan 2:44)

Not all can be part of the Kingdom arrangement…because like all governments, it needs people…..subjects to rule, and those who need the services of priests to lead them in worship and to intercede for them with God.
God had a purpose in creating humans to live forever on earth….and what he starts, he finishes….(Isa 55:11)
 
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soberxp

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….if Jesus died for us almost 2000 years ago…why is death still a tragic part of our lives? Why is the devil still so active in the world as it sinks ever deeper into a moral morass?
Let's start with the Book of Revelation about the seven churches, each pointing out their mistakes, but since then, The mistakes of the church never stopped. Because the world is so big, so many people, the woods are big, what kind of birds have. For since man learned to discern good from evil, the errors of man and the errors of the church have been based on the stratagems of Satan. Therefore, the so-called " justice " established in various names in the world is futile and false. Because humans have been struggling under Satan's schemes, this can only be changed if people truly understand God's word.

Because as Jesus Christ said on the cross,
The Gospel of Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
 

Aunty Jane

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Leviticus 19:19
Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee.
Since English is not your first language, perhaps a more modern translation will help to convey more readily the meaning of these Scriptures….no one speaks archaic English any more….the words and phrasing can be confusing, especially to those not acquainted with it.

Leviticus 19:19 for example, reads in a more modern English translation….
“‘You should keep my statutes: You must not interbreed two sorts of your domestic animals. You must not sow your field with two sorts of seed, and you must not wear a garment made with two sorts of thread mixed together.”

Why was this mandated?
For animals, God is the Creator and he made them perfect, even in closely related domestic animals, they were not to produce a new species, as if God’s creation needed improving. There is a genetic barrier as well so that the resulting offspring is invariably sterile.

Sowing one’s field with two kinds of seed may have been similar to the law at Deut 22:9…..
“You must not sow your vineyard with two sorts of seed, for fear that the full produce of the seed that you might sow and the product of the vineyard may be forfeited to the sanctuary.”
Sowing a field this way resulted in forfeiting the crop.
Seeds of different kinds could be sown, each kind in separate places in the same field, which may have been to keep the Israelites mindful of their separateness and distinctness as God’s people, under his Kingship.

And the mixing of threads, it seems that only the priests were to wear garments of mixed threads, Garments of the general population were of various colors, variegated, and striped, and some were embroidered. Varieties of weave existed. The high priest’s white linen robe was woven “in checkerwork.”…often with wool interwoven….the fine linen was a symbol of purity.
Essentially, God is not allowed to graft seeds.
I‘m not sure what this means…can you explain?
But since Satan could impose the tree of good and evil on Adam and Eve, God could also impose the tree of life on humanity.
Again, I am not sure that “impose” is the right word here.
Satan knew that he could not force the humans to obey him, but if he could deceive the woman (newer and less educated than the man) and encourage her to give the fruit also to her husband, (showing him that she did not die) the devil would be able to separate them from their God by their disobedience and become a god and master to them himself. (Rom 6:16)

An immediate barrier was created by their sin, necessitating the need for a “mediator” to communicate between God and his human creation. (1 Tim 2:5-6)
But technically, it's not a mixture of two seeds.
There is only one seed can grow the Fruit of life.Those who follow Jesus Christ.
God had many trees in the garden, all planted by himself….all varieties were available to the humans to eat as they chose, but only two were distinguished by God….one was life giving, and the other was death dealing.
Access to the first one was freely available to them, until they ate of the second one, and immediately the first one was barred…..access denied! And they were evicted from paradise.
Because the first humans to disobey God,so everyone need to represent to obey God.
Eat it means disobey God.
Jesus Christ is the Fruit of life. If we eat it then we will obey the God.
To disobey God meant death, but not straight away….they were permitted to “fill the earth” with their children first. Adam and his wife had many children (sons and daughters as it says in Genesis 5:4-5)
And the population grew until the flood of Noah’s day…but by then sin and demonic interference had so warped the population, that drastic measures were needed to put a stop to the moral decay.
God facilitated a reset, bringing the human race back to just eight righteous people, and starting again.

Satan's motive comes from his cunning, if Satan is the ancient serpent, because God only made it cunning.
Revelation identifies the “original serpent“ as satan the devil. But was he really a snake? Or did he just use a snake to deceive the woman? Angels have the ability to materialize, so perhaps he even manifested himself as a serpent….? We don’t really know, but we do know that the serpent’s days are just about to come to an end, and he will be dealt with by Jesus Christ, throwing him and his minions into a deep abyss whilst the human race, redeemed by Jesus sacrifice, will be brought back to the perfection that Adam first enjoyed at the beginning. Then he will be released one last time to test out the now perfect human race.(Rev 20:1-3)
Between the second coming of Jesus and the Revelation.
Yes, I believe that too, but elements of the Revelation are unfolding as we speak.

Let's start with the Book of Revelation about the seven churches, each pointing out their mistakes, but since then, The mistakes of the church never stopped.
I agree….the church system is sadly flawed….and those who claim to be “Christians” for the most part do not behave in a way that Jesus would approve. He told us to be “no part of the world” but the churches are up to their necks in it. Participating in corrupt politics….shedding blood in nationalistic wars….and adopting all manner of immorality and justifying it.
For since man learned to discern good from evil, the errors of man and the errors of the church have been based on the stratagems of Satan. Therefore, the so-called " justice " established in various names in the world is futile and false. Because humans have been struggling under Satan's schemes, this can only be changed if people truly understand God's word.
Again I agree, but in stating from the beginning that man was not given the option to decide what was good and evil for themselves, relying on God to tell them the difference was vital. As we see ever since, man has been calling evil “good”, and good “evil”. He clearly does not know the difference.

Man was not created to rule himself or to make up his own laws…he was created by God with free will, but it was only to be exercised within the parameters that had his approval. Free will was a blessing under God’s terms, but under man’s terms with the devil’s influence, it became a curse.
Because as Jesus Christ said on the cross,
The Gospel of Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
He was asking forgiveness for the Roman soldiers who were just following orders…he was not asking forgiveness for the wicked men who orchestrated his murder. Even Pilate knew that he was innocent.
He had already condemned the religious leaders to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33)
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
I agree but this is something that bothered me before I started to study the Bible for myself….if Jesus died for us almost 2000 years ago…why is death still a tragic part of our lives?
Jesus came to overcome sin and the effects of sin and he did this first in himself in overcoming sin, having never yielded to the lusts of the flesh and he endured the great trials and sufferings, even unto the death on the cross or tree. He endured all the effects of Adam's sin, and God raised him the dead.

Rather than cancelling out all the effects of Adam's sin, he opened up the way whereby we can share in his victory, not only by a transformed life now, but also the promise of resurrection and everlasting life when he returns. Jesus will only cancel out ALL the effects of Adam's sin at the end of the 1000 years, when even death itself will be abolished.
I have a different take on that…..The Kingdom of God is a heavenly arrangement that meant taking some humans to heaven to rule with Christ in his Kingdom.
Yes, I am aware of the JW perspective on 1914, the 144,000 and the two classes of people. I reject the concept that only the NT faithful will be with Jesus. I believe that Jesus will return soon and gather to himself the faithful, one class of people from OT and NT times and he will then rule on earth.
Jesus promised his disciples that he was “going to prepare a place” for them “in his Father’s house”, but they did not understand that this was in heaven.
Jesus was going to be crucified and then going to heaven and this was to prepare a place for all the faithful in the spiritual Temple.
Not all can be part of the Kingdom arrangement…because like all governments, it needs people…..subjects to rule, and those who need the services of priests to lead them in worship and to intercede for them with God.
God had a purpose in creating humans to live forever on earth….and what he starts, he finishes….(Isa 55:11)
The faithful will be kings and priests over a significant remnant of natural Israel who will be converted when Christ returns and after Armageddon. Jesus will also rule over the mortal nations who survive Armageddon and the judgements after this and these nations will learn the ways of God during the 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4. Yes we have different perspectives on the Kingdom of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

soberxp

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Because as Jesus Christ said on the cross,
The Gospel of Luke 23:34
Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.

He was asking forgiveness for the Roman soldiers who were just following orders…he was not asking forgiveness for the wicked men who orchestrated his murder. Even Pilate knew that he was innocent.
He had already condemned the religious leaders to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33)
Not just to the Roman soldiers, but to everyone. Stephen said the same thing to others.
 

Aunty Jane

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Not just to the Roman soldiers, but to everyone. Stephen said the same thing to others.
It is true that Jesus’ sacrifice covers “everyone”….but not everyone will accept the terms, as it requires something of them……it requires genuine repentance, a turning around, and the sacrifice of their own will to God’s will, as Jesus demonstrated….when it comes down to it….not many are willing to put themselves out and change their behavior to conform to Christ’s example. Which is why the majority are travelling the broad and easy road to “destruction”. (Matt 7:13-14)

Luke 22:42…
“Father, if you want to, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place.”

What was the ”cup” that Jesus wanted his God to “remove”? It wasn’t his sacrificial death, as that was his primary mission….it was the charge of blasphemy that tore at his soul. How could the “son of God” blaspheme the one who sent him, out of love to rescue Adam’s children? (John 3:16)
Nevertheless, he was prepared to die as a convicted criminal, rather than to uphold his personal feelings on the matter.
He would fulfill the prophesy at Isa 53:5, 11-12….

“But he was pierced for our transgression;
He was crushed for our errors.
He bore the punishment for our peace,
And because of his wounds we were healed.

11  Because of his anguish, he will see and be satisfied.
By means of his knowledge the righteous one, my servant,
Will bring a righteous standing to many people,
And their errors he will bear.
12  For that reason I will assign him a portion among the many,
And he will apportion the spoil with the mighty,
Because he poured out his life even to death
And was counted among the transgressors;
He carried the sin of many people,

And he interceded for the transgressors.”

What an amazing act of love…..
 
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Aunty Jane

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Yes, I am aware of the JW perspective on 1914, the 144,000 and the two classes of people. I reject the concept that only the NT faithful will be with Jesus. I believe that Jesus will return soon and gather to himself the faithful, one class of people from OT and NT times and he will then rule on earth.
Since the very foundations of the Kingdom rest on the 12 living stones (the apostles) supported by the chief cornerstone, (who is Jesus Christ), parties to the new covenant were only taken into that covenant on the night before Jesus died. Those who lived and died before that covenant was instituted were not included.
No one who died before Christ was eligible for heaven, because Christ’s death and resurrection opened the way….demonstrated by the curtain in the most holy compartment of the Temple being “rent in two” at his death. This pictured opening the way for others to follow him to heaven.

All the faithful ones of old are still sleeping in their graves awaiting Messiah’s Kingdom, where they will, no doubt, have a meaningful role in the kingdom’s administration on earth. The system that God gave Israel, with its priesthood and Temple arrangement, was a shadow of the heavenly reality.

In his Revelation, John saw two groups of people attributing salvation to God and the Lamb.

Rev 7:4, 9-10, 13-14…..
”And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel”.
This is spiritual Israel, not fleshly Israel. The “Israel of God” are made up of those who came to Christ out of all nations…..(Gal 6:16, Acts 10:34-35)

”After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

So there are 144,000 who are “bought from among mankind as firstfruits”, (Rev 14:1-4) and who are seen on a heavenly Mt Zion with the Lamb.

“In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

Where does the “great tribulation” take place? It is here on earth and this “great crowd” are seen as survivors of that great time of trouble for humanity. The time of Jesus’ return as judge with his heavenly army, (Matt 24:21) to separate the “sheep from the goats”.
The faithful will be kings and priests over a significant remnant of natural Israel who will be converted when Christ returns and after Armageddon. Jesus will also rule over the mortal nations who survive Armageddon and the judgements after this and these nations will learn the ways of God during the 1000 years Isaiah 2:1-4. Yes we have different perspectives on the Kingdom of God.
This is not my understanding at all and makes no sense to me….so yes, we have totally different views of the Kingdom. What is the purpose of “Armageddon” after all? It is a cleansing of the earth, just as the flood was in Noah’s day…only this time the ark is spiritual….and the flood is the outpouring of Jehovah’s anger. (Matt 24:37-39)

Tell me Trevor, who are your brethren? who has taught you these things? From you own story I can tell that you are a seeker….so where did you finally find your spiritual home? Do you meet with your brothers and sisters regularly? Do your brethren take part in the great commission? (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14)
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Those who lived and died before that covenant was instituted were not included.
I accept only one system of salvation, a belief of the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5-6,12. Part of this was the promise concerning the Seed of the Woman, the various Promises to Abraham and this includes the New Covenant and the Promise of the Land, and this is expanded in the Promises to David. Justification is by faith.
No one who died before Christ was eligible for heaven
I do not believe in any heaven going.
What is the purpose of “Armageddon” after all?
It is a major Battle that will occur when Jesus returns, but only one step in the process of establishing the Kingdom of God upon the earth. I consider that Revelation 16:12-16 is parallel with the details of Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45, Zechariah 14 and many other prophecies. Have you considered these particular prophecies and the outcome predicted. These do not agree with the JW perspective.
Tell me Trevor, who are your brethren? who has taught you these things? From you own story I can tell that you are a seeker….so where did you finally find your spiritual home? Do you meet with your brothers and sisters regularly? Do your brethren take part in the great commission? (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14)
I am a Christadelphian and I meet regularly in one of the eight meetings in my region.. Yes we preach the Gospel to the public, locally and to a wider audience. Also two of our senior brethren have recently preached in Pakistan and Vanuatu, and another senior brother has preached in Mongolia and other countries.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Ritajanice

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This is another way that I see.

If Jesus had inherited a sinful nature....then how could he be the Son Of God...how could God have led him through His Spirit....he couldn’t, because there is no sin in God...Jesus could NOT be led by his Father’s Spirit if he had inherited a sin nature......plus we can’t fellowship with God, not unless he sets our spirit free from sin ,and our spirit becomes “ Born Again “...

There is NO sin in Jesus...there is NO sin in our Spirit Father God..

Only purity in Both, Jesus and His Father God....we are now also pure in the eyes of God as our spirit has been birthed into the Spirit of Christ......we still have the old man/ body of sin.....yet we have life, because we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ....Praise God.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
And to you Trevor…
I accept only one system of salvation, a belief of the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5-6,12. Part of this was the promise concerning the Seed of the Woman, the various Promises to Abraham and this includes the New Covenant and the Promise of the Land, and this is expanded in the Promises to David. Justification is by faith.
Can I ask what is “the gospel of the Kingdom” according to your beliefs? What is it that was to be “preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”? (Matt 24:14) Simply put…what is the kingdom message?
I do not believe in any heaven going.
Yet Jesus went there, and said he was going to prepare a place for his disciples (his elect or chosen ones) in his Father’s house. Where is his Father’s house?
1 Peter 1:3-5…
”Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for according to his great mercy he gave us a new birth to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an incorruptible and undefiled and unfading inheritance. It is reserved in the heavens for you, 5 who are being safeguarded by God’s power through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last period of time.”
And revealed it was….so, what was this “new birth” that they were to look forward to? What was the “incorruptible…undefiled and unfading inheritance” that they looked forward to receiving? It was ”reserved in the heavens” for them.
It is a major Battle that will occur when Jesus returns, but only one step in the process of establishing the Kingdom of God upon the earth. I consider that Revelation 16:12-16 is parallel with the details of Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45, Zechariah 14 and many other prophecies. Have you considered these particular prophecies and the outcome predicted. These do not agree with the JW perspective.
It’s all about the interpretation though, isn’t it? Why do you think that there are so many bickering denominations in Christendom….all have their own interpretation of Scripture, and satan has succeeded in masking the truth by planting his weeds in the whole world.

“Armageddon” is ‘the war to end all wars’, but it is not a specific geographical location….it is a world situation identified in the Scriptures…..JEHOVAH’S great day is near, and that means war….but who is fighting who?

In vision, the apostle John saw froglike “expressions inspired by demons” going forth to all “kings,” or rulers, of the earth. To do what?…..“to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty”! John added: “They gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Magedon”or “Mountain of Megiddo”. (Rev 16:13-16) Drawing on Megiddo’s history as the site of decisive battles, Revelation uses it to picture the approaching situation when hatred for God’s people by “all the nations” will reach a climax…and they will be specifically targeted with a vengeance…..in Satan’s last stand.

Soon, Jehovah will move this system’s political element to destroy Babylon the Great, the devil’s world empire of false religion. (Rev 17:1-5, 15-17) Then “Gog of Magog”, (nations influenced by Satan the Devil combining to eliminate God’s true worshippers.
In this “time of the end”, he and his hordes are confined to the vicinity of the earth. Rev 12:7-12) He will marshal his minions and make an all-out attack on Jehovah’s peaceful, seemingly defenseless people. (Ezekiel 38:1-12) But God will act to rescue his people. That will mark the outbreak of “the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.” (Joel 2:31; Ezek 38:18-20)
I am a Christadelphian and I meet regularly in one of the eight meetings in my region.. Yes we preach the Gospel to the public, locally and to a wider audience. Also two of our senior brethren have recently preached in Pakistan and Vanuatu, and another senior brother has preached in Mongolia and other countries.
The preaching of the kingdom was to be global, (Matt 24:14) requiring an international army of preachers to get the task undertaken before “the end” comes. It is both a privilege and a great responsibility laid upon Christ’s disciples to engage in that work of declaring the good news of something better to come….to explain what God’s kingdom is, and how it is going to change the world for the better…..especially now when “the end” is so close and times are getting tougher and tougher…..in all my years of kingdom preaching, I have never seen your brethren out in public, or been visited by a Christadelphian….many people have never heard of your brotherhood. I have encountered maybe two or three in my door to door ministry, and it was refreshing to have many beliefs in common, but we do diverge when it comes to the Kingdom and what will take place when the end does finally arrive…..

There is only one truth, and Jesus knows who is “doing the will of his Father”. They imitate Christ in the activity he was most involved in…..preaching about God’s kingdom. (Acts 20:20)

All my best to you…..
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Can I ask what is “the gospel of the Kingdom” according to your beliefs? What is it that was to be “preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations”? (Matt 24:14) Simply put…what is the kingdom message?
As a simple summary, Jesus will return and establish the Kingdom of God upon the earth for the 1000 years. He will sit upon the Temple Throne of David in Jerusalem accompanied by the faithful as Kings and Priests. They will rule over the mortal converted nation of Israel, and the subjugated mortal nations who will learn the ways of God.
Where is his Father’s house?
Hebrews 3:1–6 (KJV): 1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. 4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. 5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; 6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Then “Gog of Magog”, ... will marshal his hordes and make an all-out attack on Jehovah’s peaceful, seemingly defenseless people. (Ezekiel 38:1-12)
Ezekiel 38 is speaking about natural Israel.
There is only one truth, and Jesus knows who is “doing the will of his Father”. They imitate Christ in the activity he was most involved in…..preaching about God’s kingdom. (Acts 20:20)
We extensively preach the Gospel, but a greater emphasis in our meetings is the spiritual growth and development of our members.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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We extensively preach the Gospel, but a greater emphasis in our meetings is the spiritual growth and development of our members.
I would love to speak with your members, but we so rarely encounter them. We do have a lot in common but the assignment that Jesus gave his disciples just before his ascension to heaven, (I assume that you believe Christ went to heaven and was resurrected in a spiritual body, not a body of flesh) was the preaching and disciple making work. (Matt 28:19-20) Emphasis on spiritual growth was important, as we see that the disciples regularly met to encourage one another in congregations, (Heb 10:24-25) and “all the more so“ as they beheld the day of Jehovah’s judgment drawing near.…..but sharing the kingdom message with others was paramount...and it was a global assignment, meaning that these disciples would have to be found actively preaching in every nation for that to be true. (Matt 24:14; Acts 20:20; Matt 10:11-14; Mark 13:9-11)
 
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