Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh nature?

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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Jesus actually had this conversation with the Pharisees…..
Matt 22:41-45…”And while the Pharisees were gathered Jesus put the question to them 42 “What do you think about the Messiah? whose son is he to be?” They said to him “David’s.” 43 He said to them “How is it then that David in the Spirit calls him lord, in the words 44 ‘The Lord said to my lord “Sit at my right hand till I put your enemies underneath your feet”’? 45 if then David calls him lord, how is he to be his son?” 46 And nobody could give him any answer, and from that day on no one any longer dared to put any question to him.”
Jesus was quoting Psalm 110:1-2. So how is David’s “lord” also his son? Can you give an answer that the Pharisees could not?
Jesus was a descendant of David through Mary his mother, but Jesus had a higher status as God the Father was his father through rhe power of the Holy Spirit, and as such he was The Son of God Luke 1:34-35.
Yes, it was assumed by all that Mary was his mother in the earthly sense, but Jesus came through Mary, not from her. For all intents a purposes, Jesus’ identity as the son of Mary and Joseph did not take into account who he was before his human birth.
Jesus was FROM Mary, his mother. I do not believe that Jesus preexisted as the Second Person of the Trinity, or as Michael the Archangel, or as any other created being.
Again the assumption was that he was the son of Joseph and Mary and as such fulfilled the prophesy.
Both Joseph and Mary belong to the tribe of Judah, and are both descendants of King David. So the heirship rights of Jesus would be doubly established.
No, Jesus was directly descended from David through Mary, and as such he was of David's flesh.
Since Jesus had to return to heaven to present the value of his sacrificial blood to his God and Father, it would be impossible for Jesus to be raised in a fleshly body…
Jesus' flesh body was raised from the dead as flesh and then changed to immortality. He still has an immortal flesh body.
Flesh and blood cannot exist in the spirit realm. Humans are confined to the earth, where the life support they need to live and breathe is abundantly supplied. Spirits live in heaven….fleshly creatures live on earth. No creature of flesh and blood can go to heaven. They must be transformed into spirit beings. What is mortal puts on immortality…..for the chosen ones.
Jesus is an immortal flesh body, a descendant of David. He does not have blood and does not need air.
Jesus ... will rule from heaven with his elect over earthly subjects. That is what the scriptures teach.
Jesus will return and reign from Jerusalem, and he will no longer be in heaven.
Acts 3:19–21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
This is what the Scriptures teach.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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JBO

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The fate of the entire human race rested with Adam, not the woman. (Rom 5:12) If Adam had made a different decision, he could have changed the whole course of human history.
You haven't sinned because Adam sinned. You sinned because you, like Adam, chose to sin. We all start out just like Adam started out, i.e., sinless. We become sinners once we sin. Having sinned, we become dead in (our) trespasses and sins. We were once spiritually alive and then became spiritually dead when we sinned. We stay that way until we are born again, made spiritually alive again.

Jesus started out no different than all the rest of humanity. He was born spiritually alive just like Adam and just like you and me. The difference is that Adam, you and I sinned while Jesus did not sin. To sin is a choice, it is a choice to disobey God. Jesus chose to always obey God.
 

JBO

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Jesus was FROM Mary, his mother. I do not believe that Jesus preexisted as the Second Person of the Trinity, or as Michael the Archangel, or as any other created being.
John 1:1 says that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God". It goes on to say in John 1:9 that the Word, was the "True Light" and in John 1:14 that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us"

Thus, what or who was the Word? The Word was the preincarnate Jesus. The Word was the second person of the Trinity. Just like the Father and the Holy Spirit, the Word was Spirit. All of us, since Adam and Eve, have been born of a woman. We are flesh. But we are also spirit. That spirit comes from God (Zech 12:1; Eccl 12:7). Everly human being, including Adam and Ever were given a spirit formed by God. That is the difference between the rest of all humanity and Jesus. Our spirits were formed by God and given to us. Jesus' spirit was not formed by God, Jesus' spirit was God. The spirit of the man Jesus Christ was the second Spirit of the Trinity. It was that second Spirit of the Trinity that came in the flesh of the man Jesus Christ and dwelt among us.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings JBO,
Thus, what or who was the Word? The Word was the preincarnate Jesus.
I believe that "The Word" of John 1:1 is a personification, similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" of Proverbs 8. Jesus was a human, the Son of God, born with God as his father and Mary his mother Luke 1:34-35.
Our spirits were formed by God and given to us. Jesus' spirit was not formed by God, Jesus' spirit was God. The spirit of the man Jesus Christ was the second Spirit of the Trinity.
I disagree with your exposition of "spirits". There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father. Our Lord Jesus Christ is a human now exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father in God the Father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, charcter and resurrection.

Kind regards
Trevor

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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You haven't sinned because Adam sinned. You sinned because you, like Adam, chose to sin.
I believe that Paul argues with this idea….

Romans 7:14-25….
”For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”

It is a constant daily battle…..for all of Adam’s descendants. Who cannot identify with this weakness of the flesh and the propensity to sin, that Paul explains?
Rom 5:12..
”That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.

We all start out just like Adam started out, i.e., sinless. We become sinners once we sin. Having sinned, we become dead in (our) trespasses and sins. We were once spiritually alive and then became spiritually dead when we sinned. We stay that way until we are born again, made spiritually alive again.
If sin is what leads to death, then why do babies die? Have they sinned in the womb? Or are they born with the defects of sin inherited from Adam? We are born in sin, through no fault of our own.

1 Cor 15:20-22…
”But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”

Sorry, but your argument is not supported by Scripture.
Jesus started out no different than all the rest of humanity. He was born spiritually alive just like Adam and just like you and me. The difference is that Adam, you and I sinned while Jesus did not sin. To sin is a choice, it is a choice to disobey God. Jesus chose to always obey God.
Jesus was born without the inheritance of sin from Adam. Sin is like a genetically inherited disease which is passed on to the succeeding generations…..the only way to eliminate it is to stop reproducing….but in order to stamp out Adam’s sinful DNA, would require one of two remedies….to wipe out the entire human race and start again….or to provide a rescuer who could cancel the debt of sin by offering to die instead of us.

We know what course God chose.
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Jesus was born without the inheritance of sin from Adam.
Jesus inherited the effects of Adam's sin, the lusts of the flesh and mortality. Adam was not created mortal, but received this because of his disobedience. So Jesus was not born the same as Adam before the fall.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

JBO

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Greetings JBO,

I believe that "The Word" of John 1:1 is a personification, similar to the Wise Woman "Wisdom" of Proverbs 8. Jesus was a human, the Son of God, born with God as his father and Mary his mother Luke 1:34-35.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,....

That does not seem to me to be a personification. It is a statement of fact.

I disagree with your exposition of "spirits". There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father. Our Lord Jesus Christ is a human now exalted to sit at the right hand of God the Father in God the Father's Throne, and he is the Son of God by birth, charcter and resurrection.
You do not agree that each and every human being possesses a spirit? That is weird. A physical human being in the non-physical spiritual realm? That is also weird.
 

JBO

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I believe that Paul argues with this idea….

Romans 7:14-25….
”For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin. 15 For I do not understand what I am doing. For I do not practice what I wish, but I do what I hate. 16 However, if I do what I do not wish, I agree that the Law is fine. 17 But now I am no longer the one doing it, but it is the sin that resides in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, there dwells nothing good; for I have the desire to do what is fine but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good that I wish, but the bad that I do not wish is what I practice. 20 If, then, I do what I do not wish, I am no longer the one carrying it out, but it is the sin dwelling in me.

21 I find, then, this law in my case: When I wish to do what is right, what is bad is present with me. 22 I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, 23 but I see in my body another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my body. 24 Miserable man that I am! Who will rescue me from the body undergoing this death? 25 Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So, then, with my mind I myself am a slave to God’s law, but with my flesh to sin’s law.”


It is a constant daily battle…..for all of Adam’s descendants. Who cannot identify with this weakness of the flesh and the propensity to sin, that Paul explains?
How can it be a battle if it is not a choice?
Rom 5:12..
”That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned”.
Because they all sinned. Not because Adam sinned. Adam was just the first (actually the second, but no matter) to sin. He introduced sin to the physical creation. As a result, he introduced spiritual death to the physical creation.
If sin is what leads to death, then why do babies die? Have they sinned in the womb? Or are they born with the defects of sin inherited from Adam? We are born in sin, through no fault of our own.
Physical death is an integral feature of this physical creation. The tree of life was placed in the garden to fend off that integral feature. Once ejected from the Garden, Adam and Eve no longer had access to that fruit and thus ended up eventually dying. But the spiritually died in the day the sinned.
1 Cor 15:20-22…
”But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. 21 For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”
Yes. Through a man, not because of a man. In Adam simply means being a human.
Sorry, but your argument is not supported by Scripture.
Sorry, but it is supported by scripture.
Jesus was born without the inheritance of sin from Adam. Sin is like a genetically inherited disease which is passed on to the succeeding generations…..the only way to eliminate it is to stop reproducing….but in order to stamp out Adam’s sinful DNA, would require one of two remedies….to wipe out the entire human race and start again….or to provide a rescuer who could cancel the debt of sin by offering to die instead of us.

We know what course God chose.
Where do you read any of that? No one is born with the inheritance of sin. Sin is not inherited. Sin is committed. The physical death of Christ on the cross did not stop anyone from dying physically. It didn't even stop anyone from dying spiritually. The physical death of Christ on the cross was a sacrifice to God for the sins of the world. It was the means of redemption for all who would accept it. Those who accept it still die physically; however, they do not die the second death (Rev 20:14).

Sin is not inherited. The natural tendency to sin is inherited. That natural tendency was built into the creation of the human being. Otherwise, there would be no need for any of God's law. The tendency to sin is not sin.
 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again JBO,
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,....
That does not seem to me to be a personification. It is a statement of fact.
Yes, it speaks about how God's character became resident in Jesus, the Son of God. At the time of his ministry Jesus was revealed to be full of grace and truth. The moral glory is dependant upon the begettal of God's Son, and the begettal of Jesus is revealed in more detail in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35, where God the Father is the father of Jesus and Mary the mother.
You do not agree that each and every human being possesses a spirit? That is weird. A physical human being in the non-physical spiritual realm? That is also weird.
I disagree with your exposition on a number of grounds. I do not believe that our spirit lives after our death and contains the individual consciousness and character. When we die we return to the dust awaiting the resurrection when Christ returns. I do not accept the Trinity and therefore do not accept that the character and thinking of Jesus was because his whole spirit was an injection of the second person of the Trinity. Jesus grew as a child and was specially educated by God his father and Mary his mother and Joseph. As an aside, I doubt that many Trinitarians would accept your simplistic logic on the subject of the spirit of Jesus.
As a result, he introduced spiritual death to the physical creation.
He introduced physical death to himself and his descendants. He was to return to the dust and all his descendants are mortal, subject to death, even infants that die before they sin.
Physical death is an integral feature of this physical creation. The tree of life was placed in the garden to fend off that integral feature. Once ejected from the Garden, Adam and Eve no longer had access to that fruit and thus ended up eventually dying. But the spiritually died in the day the sinned.
The tree of life did not maintain them while they were in the Garden. One eating of the tree of life would have granted immortality and they were cast out so that they would not become immortal sinners.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

JBO

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Greetings again JBO,

Yes, it speaks about how God's character became resident in Jesus, the Son of God. At the time of his ministry Jesus was revealed to be full of grace and truth. The moral glory is dependant upon the begettal of God's Son, and the begettal of Jesus is revealed in more detail in Matthew 1:20-21 and Luke 1:34-35, where God the Father is the father of Jesus and Mary the mother.

I disagree with your exposition on a number of grounds. I do not believe that our spirit lives after our death and contains the individual consciousness and character. When we die we return to the dust awaiting the resurrection when Christ returns. I do not accept the Trinity and therefore do not accept that the character and thinking of Jesus was because his whole spirit was an injection of the second person of the Trinity. Jesus grew as a child and was specially educated by God his father and Mary his mother and Joseph. As an aside, I doubt that many Trinitarians would accept your simplistic logic on the subject of the spirit of Jesus.

He introduced physical death to himself and his descendants. He was to return to the dust and all his descendants are mortal, subject to death, even infants that die before they sin.
Given all of that, there is not much for you and me to even discuss.
The tree of life did not maintain them while they were in the Garden. One eating of the tree of life would have granted immortality and they were cast out so that they would not become immortal sinners
So your idea here is that God obviously didn't know that Adam and Eve would sin and placed the tree of life in the garden to give them immortality. Not a very high view of God. But I guess given your comments above, that doesn't surprise me very much.
 

Aunty Jane

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Jesus inherited the effects of Adam's sin, the lusts of the flesh and mortality.
Jesus came from outside of the human race because of the defect created by Adam’s sin.
He was like Adam was when he was first created…..sinless. It didn’t take away his free will but it allowed him to combat it more easily.
Adam was perfect when God created him, but he misused his free will, and threw all his children under the bus.
Adam was not created mortal, but received this because of his disobedience. So Jesus was not born the same as Adam before the fall.
Adam was always mortal because “the tree of life” was accessible to him, so as long as he continued to be obedient, he would continue to live. Once he transgressed God’s command, death was the sentence. Death could not occur any other way…..he was not told that his mortality would ultimately kill him….only sin would result in death.

“Mortal” doesn’t mean that we have to die…only that we can.
Continuing life was contingent on their obedience. There was no natural cause of death in Eden, because there were no immortal souls and death was the opposite of life, like it is for animals. Partaking of the tree of life would have meant living forever as Gen 3:22-24 clearly states. Once sin entered the picture, God denied access to the tree of life. Sinners would then die, within the “day” that God stated.
“….one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.” ((2 Peter 3:7-8)
Not a single human has lived to 1000 years. Methuselah almost made it…at 969 years of age.

Adam and his wife were evicted from the garden and denied access to “the tree of life”….that is what brought about eventual death….humans lived very long lives prior to the flood….closer to perfection they lived for hundreds of years. But after the flood, human lifespan continued to decline until we now live on average to 70 or 80. Old age brings with it a multitude of health issues. None of that was meant to happen.

Everlasting life is not immortality. The important difference answers a lot of questions.
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
He was like Adam was when he was first created…..sinless. It didn’t take away his free will but it allowed him to combat it more easily.
You are continuing to wrongly label the lusts of the flesh as sin. Jesus was a descendant of Adam through Mary and inherited the lusts of the flesh.
Adam was always mortal because “the tree of life” was accessible to him, so as long as he continued to be obedient, he would continue to live.
The tree of life did not maintain his existence while in the garden. Eating of the tree of life would be available once Adam had successfully completed his probation. Adam was sentenced to return to the dust after he had sinned.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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How can it be a battle if it is not a choice?
You are missing the point of what “sin” is exactly.
The word “sin” is an archery term that means to “miss the mark”….it means that humankind “miss the mark” of the perfection with which Adam was created. After sin entered the human race, all Adam’s offspring inherited his defect.

When sin entered the human genome, it became a defect in mankind. How did sin enter the human race? Through the actions of one man…(Rom 5:12) it is an inheritance, passed on genetically so that we cannot escape this genetic death sentence.

A deliberate choice was made by Adam to join his wife in disobedience….his choice to sin was made by himself…..but with his descendants, there was no choice. We were plunged into sin through no fault on our part, which is what Paul stated in Romans 7:14-25. The propensity to sin in inborn, but the choice to give in to it, is our own choice. There are two kinds of sin….the one that is inborn (which we cannot eliminate ourselves) and the actions we choose to take (which are entirely under our control) This is the reason why “self-control” is a fruit of God’s spirit. A powerful factor in combatting the sinful tendencies in us.
Because they all sinned. Not because Adam sinned. Adam was just the first (actually the second, but no matter) to sin. He introduced sin to the physical creation. As a result, he introduced spiritual death to the physical creation.
Think for a moment about what you just said…..all humans sinned because they wanted to? Why would God create all humans to sin? Why was there a death penalty for sinning if God was just going to sit back and watch his creation wither up in old age or sickness and die? That makes no sense. We are made in his image…and death was never supposed to be a part of that.

Adam was the first human to misuse his free will, baited by the devil, (who was the first rebel) by using his affection for his wife to encourage him to make a bad decision. Adam played right into that scheme, thereby making satan his god and ruler, severing their relationship with their Creator.

Jehovah allowed satan to have his “week” of glory, ruling over mankind and acting as their god. (Luke 4:5-7) This time period has allowed God to separate those who love him, in spite of what the devil has done, from those who love their disobedience.…(both in heaven and on earth).
The devil’s time is almost up…and he is not happy. He knows he is going down, but he will take as many as he can deceive, down with him. (Rev 12:7-12)
Physical death is an integral feature of this physical creation. The tree of life was placed in the garden to fend off that integral feature. Once ejected from the Garden, Adam and Eve no longer had access to that fruit and thus ended up eventually dying. But the spiritually died in the day the sinned.
Yes, the humans began to die from the day they ate of the fruit and rebelled against God’s Sovereignty.

Their mortality did not mean that they had to die….only that they could.
Not a lot is said about “the tree of life”….only that they were prevented from accessing it after they had sinned. Sin was the only stated cause of death in Eden….so access to the tree of life would have meant no death ever occurring, for any reason. That is “everlasting life”…not to be confused with “immortality”.
Where do you read any of that? No one is born with the inheritance of sin. Sin is not inherited. Sin is committed.
There are two kinds of sin…..the one in our DNA that gives us the propensity to make flawed decisions….and the one we choose to commit. We are judged on the latter, not the former. Which is why Christ’s sacrifice covers only the inherited sin….his blood does not cover the deliberate and willful disobedience seen in Adam…and all who display his attitude. God’s laws are not negotiable.
The physical death of Christ on the cross did not stop anyone from dying physically. It didn't even stop anyone from dying spiritually. The physical death of Christ on the cross was a sacrifice to God for the sins of the world. It was the means of redemption for all who would accept it. Those who accept it still die physically; however, they do not die the second death (Rev 20:14).
Those who have died have ‘paid sin’s wages’ and await a resurrection, either to life, or to a period of judgment. (John 5:28-29) Christ’s blood reaches into the grave (Sheol, hades) to bring all the dead back to life. Some who have practiced vile things in the past due to ignorance, will be given another chance at life.

But the incorrigibly wicked will never live again, having gone to “Gehenna”…”the lake of fire” from which condition no one returns. It means the “second death”…..no resurrection is possible for those ones.
Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life.

What we are waiting for now, is the foretold “end“ of satan’s rule, and the abyssing of him and his hordes, so that God’s Kingdom can replace the disgustingly corrupt rulership of man that is now destroying the planet and making us all slaves to material things. (Daniel 2:44)

What does mankind have to look forward to? Projections are scary to say the least….but the Bible tells us what to expect, and how God will intervene to rescue his people and to end the wickedness forever.
Sin is not inherited. The natural tendency to sin is inherited. That natural tendency was built into the creation of the human being. Otherwise, there would be no need for any of God's law. The tendency to sin is not sin.
Why would God create man “in his image” and then make it a natural tendency in him to sin?….and then punish him for sinning?!
God’s creation was without defect…as he stated after the close of the sixth day….everything was “very good”….meaning that all that God had made met with his declaration of satisfaction. There was no tendency to sin in the human genome until sin was carried out as an abuse of free will. Use your logic. Sin did not exist until Adam disobeyed…..only then did it spread to “all men“.

If you go back to Genesis, you will see that God had only one law that carried a penalty. And it was there to basically test out free will. Because they transgressed that one law, humans, now bound to sin, had to have hundreds of laws to govern their behavior, if they wanted to please God. Having those laws, God’s people were completely different in their behavior to the nations around them who did not have God’s laws to govern them.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,

You are continuing to wrongly label the lusts of the flesh as sin. Jesus was a descendant of Adam through Mary and inherited the lusts of the flesh.
You don’t seem to understand why Jesus had to come from outside the now defective human race…..
His life was sacrificed as the payment of a ransom. The price was set when the sin was committed.

Atonement meant that the life sacrificed had to be the equivalent of the life that was lost….one for one.

What Adam lost for his children, Christ came to pay….a ransom that only a sinless life could redeem.
If Jesus was related to Mary in any way, his DNA would still carry Adam’s defect. Jesus came through the woman but God implanted the embryo who became Jesus…..the child who grew in her womb. He was sinless from birth carrying no defect from Adam. It would have cancelled out the whole reason for his coming from heaven to be born as a human child. (John 8:23)
The tree of life did not maintain his existence while in the garden. Eating of the tree of life would be available once Adam had successfully completed his probation. Adam was sentenced to return to the dust after he had sinned.
The idea of probation is not without foundation. The garden was basically a “blueprint” of what the humans would do when they widened the boundaries of their paradise home until the whole world was like the garden of Eden. They were told to “fill the earth“ with their children and to “subdue” it, bringing the land outside, under their care and control. This was their purpose. To represent God ( made in his image) to take care of all that God created to live here.

But what do we really know about “the tree of life” in the garden? Not a lot is said except that we are told in Genesis 3:22-24…
”Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.”

Rev 22:1-2….
“And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations.”

“Trees of life” are not mentioned again until the Revelation where there are more trees producing 12 crops of fruit that are for “the curing” or “healing of the nations”.

God made sure that these trees were not available to mankind until he was ready to reverse the awful situation created by the first rebels. The healing or curing of the nations is apparently their purpose….so whether the tree of life in Eden was a one off ‘dose’….or whether the tree was accessible on some sort of regular basis is not really stated, but the Revelation does seem to suggest that these trees have healing or life giving properties.
 
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Pierac

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Jesus took Adams human nature after the fall so He was born with all the damage done to mans nature during that time. But Jesus did not inherit sinful tendencies from Adam, that is, Jesus did not have a tendency to sin. Christ inherited our physical weaknesses, for example, Christ had to sleep when he got tired. He had to eat when he got hungry and drink when he got thirsty. He inherited our physical limitations but not our sinful inclinations.

Physically, Christ was like us, feeling pain, frail, weak, prone to get sick if we dont take care of our bodies, and under the consequences of aging. But morally, Christ could be tested by temptation as scripture shows us but did not have our ungodly desires or sinful inclinations. Jesus' mental human nature (tendency toward sin) was that of the unfallen Adam and his physical human nature (physical body) was that after the fall of Adam." and at the same time why it makes it hard to understand. What makes Jesus equal (having no advantage over other human beings), is that he had all the damage done by sin (Adam’s human nature after the fall), but he had what Peter calls 'the Mind of Christ' which was what Adam was given to begin with and Paul speaks of, that man can have and become dead to sin. Thus Christ has no advantage in overcoming sin as through the power of the Holy Spirit we also can have the 'Mind of Christ'.
Your a silly child boy .... Jesus is the second Adam yet both are born of flesh, and both are born from the spirit of God... and both have a God!

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Does Jesus have a God? What saith the scriptures....

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him

Mar 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';

Joh 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

And
AND, conj.

And is a conjunction, connective or conjoining word. It signifies that a word or part of a sentence is to be added to what precedes. Thus, give me an apple and an orange; that is, give me an apple, add or give in addition to that, an orange. John and Peter and James rode to New York, that is, John rode to New York; add or further, Peter rode to New York; add James rode to New York.

Pay attention boy.... Jesus was and still is a MAN!!!

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

Paul wrote 1Ti 2:5 decades after Jesus' death and resurrection...

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Now! review the definition of AND above... again!

Listen boy...

On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated man has joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on us as we sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that we could be guilty of this very same thing? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around. It would be more appropriate to put this contrast in starker terms. The defining characteristic of the Creator God is his absolute holiness. God is utterly different from and so utterly transcendent over His creation that any confusion is forbidden!

BOY... Whom do you worship?

If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus’ own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

How do you not know these things?





 

TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
There are two kinds of sin….the one that is inborn (which we cannot eliminate ourselves) and the actions we choose to take (which are entirely under our control)
No. There is only one kind of sin. The lusts of the flesh are not "sin". One of the most pivotal verses on this subject is the following:
Romans 8:3 (KJV): For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
What is interesting is that the word "sin" S#266 occurs three times as highlighted above and one of these is obscured by the translation "sinful flesh" which could be rendered "sin's flesh" or "flesh of sin". I have read many explanations of this verse, and many are tainted with the individual's theology. Also within my own fellowship there has been some difference of understanding on the various words and phrases, some very minor and some relatively important aspects.
If Jesus was related to Mary in any way, his DNA would still carry Adam’s defect. Jesus came through the woman but God implanted the embryo who became Jesus…..the child who grew in her womb. He was sinless from birth carrying no defect from Adam.
You continue on with the unique JW perspective on this subject and I consider that I have given an adequate answer on this. Jesus was the descendant of Adam and David through Mary.
“Trees of life” are not mentioned again until the Revelation where there are more trees producing 12 crops of fruit that are for “the curing” or “healing of the nations”.
The "Tree of Life" is also mentioned earlier in the Book of Revelation and is very relevant:
Revelation 2:7 (KJV): He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Aunty Jane

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No. There is only one kind of sin. The lusts of the flesh are not "sin". One of the most pivotal verses on this subject is the following:
Romans 8:3 (KJV): For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
What is interesting is that the word "sin" S#266 occurs three times as highlighted above and one of these is obscured by the translation "sinful flesh" which could be rendered "sin's flesh" or "flesh of sin". I have read many explanations of this verse, and many are tainted with the individual's theology. Also within my own fellowship there has been some difference of understanding on the various words and phrases, some very minor and some relatively important aspects.
Paul tells us that Jesus Christ, although partaking of blood and flesh, becoming “like his ‘brothers,’” was “guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners,” “tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.” (Heb 2:17; Heb 4:15; 7:26)

Jehovah proved that human flesh can be sinless. “God, by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh.” (Ro 8:3) It says ….“In the likeness of” not that Christ was sent “in sinful flesh”. Eventually, through the provision of Christ’s sacrifice, all who exercise faith will become perfect, and God’s righteous laws will then be kept perfectly by mankind. (Rev 21:2-4)

For Adam sin was a choice…but for his descendants it was not a choice at all…..all sinned and fell short.
Without Christ’s sacrifice, no human flesh would have any future…..all they could look forward to was a short trouble filled life and then death.
You continue on with the unique JW perspective on this subject and I consider that I have given an adequate answer on this. Jesus was the descendant of Adam and David through Mary.
Why is it a unique JW perspective? If you understand what redemption is, there is only one way to see it….Jesus had to be sinless….not just by choice, but by the fact that he came into the world unrelated to Adam’s DNA. Mary was as sinful as any other human and so her DNA was as flawed as anyone else’s.

Jesus could not pay for what Adam lost unless he was sinless….not tainted with the stain of sin in his flesh.
Do I understand that you retain the Universalist view that Jesus was just a man.…potentially as sinful as any other? He just chose not to be? If that was the case, why did God need to produce him by a miracle? Why couldn’t he just be the son of Mary and Joseph?
The "Tree of Life" is also mentioned earlier in the Book of Revelation and is very relevant:
Revelation 2:7 (KJV): He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
So what is the tree of life to you Trevor? Where is the paradise of God?
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Aunty Jane,
Jesus had to be sinless….not just by choice, but by the fact that he came into the world unrelated to Adam’s DNA. Mary was as sinful as any other human and so her DNA was as flawed as anyone else’s.
Yes, you continue to repeat the strange JW view of the Atonerment.
So what is the tree of life to you Trevor? Where is the paradise of God?
This has developed into figurative language.Jesus will grant immortality to the faithful when he returns to set up the Kingdom of God upon the earth 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8.

Kind regards
Trevor