Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh nature?

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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Don Clarkston,
I never said Jesus gave in to the lusts of the flesh... I'm saying Jesus never accept the lusts of the flesh meaning he never had them in the first place.
Feel free to believe the lies of the devil that claim Jesus was desiring to do evil but just never acted on them.
I already showed you what Jesus said about lusting is a sin even without acting on the lust.
I reject your assessment. We can have the lusts and not sin if the lust does not conceive in our heart James 1:13-15.
So you put your trust in your "scholars" who teach the wisdom of men as though it were the wisdom of God... and I'll stick with what Jesus said in His Word concerning the Holy Spirit!
I am one of the two librarians for our meeting, but have a much larger personal library, both print and electronic. I enjoy the many and varied expositions and reference books, all contributing to a better understanding of the Truth of God's Word. I used to enjoy going to second hand book sales and bookshops. My Dad was a Salesman Distributor for Collins books. He specialised in School libraries. Do you have many reference books? or do you rely upon the Holy Spirit within?
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
I consider that Jesus was speaking about the Holy Spirit gifts that the Apostles were soon to receive and this included prophecy. I consider that these gifts are not possessed by believers today.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

Jay Ross

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So, the BS continues from both sides of the divide with little substance to back up their respective claims as to their "holiness," in the adorning eyes of those who worship their "religious" guru leaders.

Oh, how far have we all fallen?
 
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Aunty Jane

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So you put your trust in your "scholars" who teach the wisdom of men as though it were the wisdom of God... and I'll stick with what Jesus said in His Word concerning the Holy Spirit!
Without those scholars, we would not have translations of the Bible. Who translated the Bible you use?

In Jesus’ day the common language spoken by the people was Koine Greek, not Hebrew….so what did the apostles use to teach the gentiles who came to Christ after his death? Reading to them from the Hebrew Scriptures would have been a waste of time. What they had available to them back then, was the Septuagint, which was Hebrew translated into Greek.(but only the OT)

Did God object to having his word translated into other languages? Hardly, as the disciples showed at Pentecost of 33CE when the spirit gave them ability to speak in all the languages of the foreign speaking visitors who had come to Jerusalem for the festival.

Hearing the word of God in their own language was vital for their understanding.…and they took that knowledge back to their home countries with them, and thus the truth about the Christ spread abroad, and continued to spread, but true to his nature, the devil would have a go at adulterating that truth, by mistranslation, misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

It isn’t scholars per se, that we have to be wary of, it is Christendom’s core teachings that reveal who is teaching the word of God and who are promoting the words and ideas of men.

The very foundation of the Christian faith was undermined by those who sought power over the people in a tyrannical manner, forcing unsubstantiated beliefs on a people whom they kept in ignorance and fear for centuries. The power they wielded, did to those religious leaders, exactly what it did to the ones in Jesus’ day who orchestrated his murder….it thoroughly corrupted them. (Matt 15:7-9)

If the foundations of a building are not strongly reinforced, nothing you build on it will withstand the storm as Jesus illustrated in the parable of building on rock, not sand.

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
Who then is the Holy Spirit leading? You? Or the thousands of others who also claim to be the only ones to find the “TRUTH”? How do you know that the “spirit” leading you is not the one leading all of them to the same fate to which you seem delighted to send them?

If nothing, the devil is a master of disguise and his deceptions are tried and successful. So who will be the “few” whom Jesus will judge as his “sheep” whilst the “goats” vainly make their excuses?

It will indeed be interesting, as we will all stand before the same judge.
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
There can be no denying this simple statement….so the question is the same as what Pilate asked, “what is truth?”
Millions of people think that their “branch” of “Christianity“ is “the truth”….so how do you tell?

How do you detect a counterfeit? Do you examine every fake, or do you just familiarize yourself with the original and allow the fakes to betray themselves?
“By their fruits”, Jesus said we would identify his true disciples…..the diamonds in a pile of broken glass.
By the kind of people they produce. (2 Peter 3:11-14)
Romans 8:14 - For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.
Again…”WHO” are “led by the spirit”? If all who claim to be are not, then who determines, who is?

What does it mean to be ‘a child of God’? What “fruitage” should we expect to see?

Love for the truth means exposing the lies, as Jesus and his apostles did, but rather than condemning those “believers” in a false truth and writing them off, it means offering people something that gives them hope of better times to come.

It means understanding why we are here on this planet in the first place, and why God in his wisdom, allowed all that has transpired in this world that he handed over to his adversary. (Luke 5:5-7)
When the future gets here... we'll see who ends up where!
We certainly will, not not by standing across a great divide to enjoy seeing everyone else perish, except those who believe as we do.…along with “I told you so”……so who decides what we believe and why we believe it? How can so many sincere people assume that what they believe must be the truth, because God has led them to that belief? Is God the only one who leads people? The devil is the Pied Piper….if the tune he plays appeals to someone they will follow him….but he doesn’t have only one tune….he has thousands, all tried and tested.

There are only two roads to choose from…one leads to life, the other to death, so, just like the garden of Eden, we must choose our course wisely because either choice has consequences or outcomes…..some are going to rejoice, whilst others are going to have deep regrets….but no one will be able to say….”no one told me”.
How many Jews who supported their religious leaders in their plot to have Jesus executed as a common criminal, could say that they never heard of Jesus? Who or what did they believe? Who told them that Jesus was a fake Messiah? Is he not as capable of misleading people today by painting Christ’s true disciples in the worst possible light? (John 15:18-21)

In this world, ruled by the devil….nothing is as it appears to be….(1 John 5:19)
 
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Lambano

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This might be where Jesus's REAL temptation was, because He KNEW what the Plan was and yet asked God to change it. Was it real? Or just a show?

902784b335b9886cd9bfdcc31a01c7b6.jpg
 

Aunty Jane

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This might be where Jesus's REAL temptation was, because He KNEW what the Plan was and yet asked God to change it. Was it real? Or just a show?

902784b335b9886cd9bfdcc31a01c7b6.jpg
There is no way that Jesus wanted the plan of salvation changed…..it is why he came into the world. The “cup” that he had to drink was to contain something he could not entertain…..dying as a blasphemer!
Anything but that! Because the real blasphemers were the ones who accused him, and orchestrated his murder. It was almost more than he could bare, such a heinous miscarriage of justice!….but he knew that it was God’s will, and he surrendered his will to his Father’s.
 
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Lambano

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The “cup” that he had to drink was to contain something he could not entertain…..dying as a blasphemer!
I don't necessarily agree with you, but even that says Jesus was concerned about His own reputation. Pride. A very human flesh thing.

But then, He overcame it, didn't He?

And the temptation was real, not a show.
 

Dan Clarkston

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We can have the lusts and not sin if the lust does not conceive in our heart James 1:13-15.

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

According to Jesus.... having the desire is sinful behavior even if one does not do the deed physically.

Under the old testament.... it was only a sin if one actually did the deed

Under the Law of Christ which Christians are under in the New Covenant.... Jesus has upped the standard because true followers of Jesus Christ are to allow the Holy Spirit to live in them to lead and guide them... the OT saints did not have the Holy Spirit inside as New Covenant believers do because they could not get born again yet.

Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.


Here we see Jesus telling us the 5 things the devil uses to choke the Word and cause it to be unfruitful... IF these things are allowed to ENTER IN which we have the responsibility to not allow... see John 14:23 where Jesus says "If a man love me, he will keep my words" as in NOT allow it to be choked out of us.

The 5 things are... affliction, persecution, cares of this world, deceitfulness of riches, and lusts of other things

James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

This is when the man allowed the desire to do evil to ENTER IN at which point he is engaging in sinful behavior because he is desiring to do things God says are sin.

Only satan and those deceived by him go around claiming Jesus allowed the desire to do evil ENTER IN causing Him to desire to do sinful things.

These people are accusing the Lord of wrongdoing and accusing Him of being a sinner... which of course is why they are not being led or taught by the Holy Spirit anymore due to having been blinded by satan.




Do you have many reference books? or do you rely upon the Holy Spirit within?

I have THE Book... God's Word
And I have THE Teacher... the Holy Ghost

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

Sorry to hear the Lord's Word and the Teacher He sent isn't good enough for you and the devil has led you on the pathway of deception trusting in the traditions of men rather than what God's Word teaches.

Reading a bunch of books by false teachers who teach man's wisdom as though it were the wisdom of God is following in the footsteps of the pharisees and sadducees... traditions of man, wisdom of men. Enjoy!




I consider that these gifts are not possessed by believers today.

That's what satan is teaching people to prevent them from being taught of the Lord... resulting in people being taught false doctrine by false teachers such as Augustine, luther, calvin, and all those nut jobs in the catholic cult.

Sounds like by your own admission... you have not the Spirit of the Lord.



So, the BS continues....
potty_mouth2.jpg




This might be where Jesus's REAL temptation was, because He KNEW what the Plan was and yet asked God to change it. Was it real? Or just a show?

No, He instead submitted Himself to His mission which was going to the Cross.

Asking if there was some other way is not asking God to change His mission or not being in submission to the Father.

If Jesus ever disagreed with the Father... that would have been sinful behavior.

It never happened, Jesus NEVER disagreed with the Father concerning His mission to go to the Cross.




But then, He overcame it, didn't He?

He never had any pride in the first place to have the need to over come it.

All the sinful things the devil tried to get Jesus to agree with... Jesus never let them in, therefore the devil had nothing in Jesus - John 14:30
 

Aunty Jane

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I don't necessarily agree with you, but even that says Jesus was concerned about His own reputation. Pride. A very human flesh thing.
Jesus was always mindful of his Father’s reputation, because he was his Father’s representative. He was a “servant” of his God. (Acts 4:27, 30) Paul even called Jesus an “apostle”…. (Heb 3:1) …and a “High Priest”…which are positions of service to Yahweh. God cannot be his own servant or his own High Priest.

Pride was certainly a trait of Jewish men back then, as the apostles continued to argue amongst themselves about ‘who was the greatest’….but on the night before he died, Jesus demonstrated his absolute humility by washing the feet of the apostles, showing that pride was definitely not one of his human traits.

Dying as a blasphemer was the ultimate test for him….his death was what paid the “ransom”, but the pain and suffering, both emotional as well as physical, was all from the devil and the wicked humans he could use to exercise their hatred for the truth that Jesus taught. God’s adversary was never going to let that be easy…it was a slow and extremely painful death, made worse by the torture he suffered before he was impaled.
I don’t think most people are aware of the suffering he endured before he breathed his last breath.
It humbles us to think about what he did to rescue us from Satan’s grasp, providing us a means to escape, and a place of spiritual peace and security, whilst the world that satan rules continues to spiral out of control. (1 John 5:19)
But then, He overcame it, didn't He?

And the temptation was real, not a show.
He was a free willed human, but without the stain of Adam’s sin…..pride was therefore not in his thoughts as he committed himself to the will of his Father, even though it was against his own will…..the temptation, like all the temptations that the devil threw at him, was very real…..as satan himself had succumbed to the sin of pride, even though he was also a ‘son of God‘.

It is obvious that free will can be either a blessing or a curse, depending on whose will is followed.
 
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TrevorHL

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Greetings again Don Clarkston,
According to Jesus.... having the desire is sinful behavior even if one does not do the deed physically.
James 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
This is when the man allowed the desire to do evil to ENTER IN at which point he is engaging in sinful behavior because he is desiring to do things God says are sin.
You fail to consider ALL of James 1:13-15. Yes, you have the Bible but does your portion of the Holy Spirit teach you to ignore and misinterpret all of this passage? Perhaps even the simplest of commentaries would help you break your fixation here.
]James 1:13-15 (KJV): 13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16Do not err, my beloved brethren.
I have THE Book... God's Word
And I have THE Teacher... the Holy Ghost
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)
Sorry to hear the Lord's Word ... isn't good enough for you
Perhaps you are a "King James only" adherent and advocate. I read from an Interlinear RV/KJV and consider the OT portion of the Bible an improvement in many areas, such as the translation of Job. I do not like some aspects of the NT portion of the RV. Also I reference the NASB when I am in our meeting. When I am at my desk, my Bible program has numerous translations and a "power lookup" will list all the translations consecutively for a particular verse. I use reference books to appreciate more fully the meaning of a word, and occasionally some commentaries. I find from experience all of this enriches the meaning and understanding of God's Word.
Sounds like by your own admission... you have not the Spirit of the Lord.
Not in the sense that you seem to be claiming.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
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Jay Ross

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That's what satan is teaching people to prevent them from being taught of the Lord... resulting in people being taught false doctrine by false teachers such as Augustine, luther, calvin, and all those nut jobs in the catholic cult.

Sounds like by your own admission... you have not the Spirit of the Lord.



potty_mouth2.jpg

No, I was commenting on the quality of the discussion and its source, whereas your response was a put down of the person. In other words, you had to resort to a false argument tactic, without offering any substance to back up your opinion.

In other words, you obvious did not understand what I had said in my post and only focused on the two-letter acronym "bs" for your rebuttal and so you confirmed what I had posted with your own form of "BS.".
 
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TheHC

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Sin did not enter the human genome. There is no "sin gene". And any category of thoughts that you have that derive from such an idea will invariably be wrong.
There doesn’t have to be a “sin gene.”
But that doesn’t negate Paul’s statement at Romans 5:12 …
“That is why, through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”

Which agrees with 1 Corinthians 15:22….
For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”

Take care, my cousin.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Satan saw hunger as an opportunity to try to tempted Jesus, but Jesus did not succumb to physical weakness, so as a human being, Who can resist the temptation of hunger without thinking about eating quickly? even managed to get food. But Jesus didn't do that. Jesus would be hungry just as us, but he resisted Satan's tricks.
Two things stand out in this temptation….one was that Jesus had fasted for 40 days…more than long enough to kill any normal human….like us. But for Jesus, it was a supernatural thing to go that long without food or water. Moses too fasted for 40 days when he went up into the mountain to receive the Ten Commandments….(Exodus 34:28)…..only God could maintain a human for that long without nourishment and water.

The second point is that neither Jesus nor his apostles ever used the gifts of the Holy Spirit for themselves.
There is no account of them ever healing one another, or using the gifts to satisfy a selfish desire.
These supernatural abilities were only for the benefit of the unbelievers, to bring them to Christ.
So getting Jesus to turn stones into loaves of bread would have been a victory for the devil in more ways than one.

Each temptation was based on a selfish motive…..hunger…..desire for worship…..and putting God to the test whilst putting one’s own life in danger, expecting God to save you. Jesus saw through the motive.
Because Jesus was always obedient to God's word, temptation,death and sin had no sovereignty on him.
That is a good way of putting it….Yahweh is our only Sovereign, and Jesus yielded to the Sovereignty of his Father alone…never to his own desires.
As Jesus himself said, people live not only by food, but by the word of God.
Yes, God’s word can never be put aside or twisted to allow anyone to offend the one who gave them life.
His Sovereign will has to be paramount in our lives, as it was in Jesus’ life.
Is it good enough for the question?
I believe so…..if it were not possible for Jesus to sin, what was the point of the temptation?
He was 100% human, but maintained his obedience to his God even though he was surrounded by sinful people who often made bad decisions due to imperfection….Jesus did not have the same imperfections as we do, but he was still a free willed being.

Satan was at first, a perfect, free willed being as well, but he succumbed to vanity and a desire for worship. Fulfilling the chain of events that brings sin to birth, (James 1: 15-17) he did not exercise self control…..as Jesus did.
Adam and Eve failed in this regard as well….

“When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14  But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15  Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.”

And here we are….
 
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Lambano

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No, He instead submitted Himself to His mission which was going to the Cross.

Asking if there was some other way is not asking God to change His mission or not being in submission to the Father.

If Jesus ever disagreed with the Father... that would have been sinful behavior.

It never happened, Jesus NEVER disagreed with the Father concerning His mission to go to the Cross
The text says what it says.

Key point: Being obedient to God is meaningless unless the desire to do otherwise is very real.
 

Hobie

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Greetings again Don Clarkston,

I reject your assessment. We can have the lusts and not sin if the lust does not conceive in our heart James 1:13-15.

I am one of the two librarians for our meeting, but have a much larger personal library, both print and electronic. I enjoy the many and varied expositions and reference books, all contributing to a better understanding of the Truth of God's Word. I used to enjoy going to second hand book sales and bookshops. My Dad was a Salesman Distributor for Collins books. He specialised in School libraries. Do you have many reference books? or do you rely upon the Holy Spirit within?

I consider that Jesus was speaking about the Holy Spirit gifts that the Apostles were soon to receive and this included prophecy. I consider that these gifts are not possessed by believers today.

Kind regards
Trevor
Oh no my brother, I have to stop you right there. We can have temptation and as long as we resist, then there is no sin. But lusts, read what Christ said:

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And we see what else Gods Word has on this..

1 John 2:16
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 

JBO

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There doesn’t have to be a “sin gene.”
But that doesn’t negate Paul’s statement at Romans 5:12 …
“That is why, through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”

Which agrees with 1 Corinthians 15:22….
For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.”

Take care, my cousin.
Why do so many fail to understand that Romans 5:12 says that the reason death spread to all men is because they all sinned? The only thing attributed to Adam is that he was the first; it was through him that sinned entered the world. It does not say that sinned spread to all men because Adam sinned.

You have tried to somehow tie together Romans 5:12 and 1 Corinthians 15:22. . Clearly 1 Corinthians is talking about physical death and the resurrection at the end of the age when Christ returns; Romans 5:12 is talking about dying spiritually, not physically. Physical death is a natural part of the creation. We know that because even though one who has been forgiven of all sin, and made alive (spiritually) dies physically. Therefore, even though one is in Christ and has received eternal life, one dies physically.
 

JBO

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I never said Jesus gave in to the lusts of the flesh... I'm saying Jesus never accept the lusts of the flesh meaning he never had them in the first place.
If that were actually true, are you saying that Satan didn't know that? Was he really that stupid? I don't think so. We all are able to choose not to sin and most do that most of the time. It is just that no one except Jesus has ever done that perfectly. Lusts of the flesh is inherent in the flesh. It is integral to being human.
 

Hobie

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If that were actually true, are you saying that Satan didn't know that? Was he really that stupid? I don't think so. We all are able to choose not to sin and most do that most of the time. It is just that no one except Jesus has ever done that perfectly. Lusts of the flesh is inherent in the flesh. It is integral to being human.
If that was so, then Christ would have been 'lustful', and that certainly wasn't the case..
 

JBO

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If that was so, then Christ would have been 'lustful', and that certainly wasn't the case..
So then, you do think that Satan was ignorant of the very thing that you think you know. Interesting.

Another question. How you could be tempted in something that you have absolutely no interest?
 

Aunty Jane

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Why do so many fail to understand that Romans 5:12 says that the reason death spread to all men is because they all sinned? The only thing attributed to Adam is that he was the first; it was through him that sinned entered the world. It does not say that sinned spread to all men because Adam sinned.
1 Cor 15:20-22…
”But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.” (ESV)

Was death ever mentioned to Adam except as a punishment for disobedience?
Without sin, there was no death…..Christ came to sacrifice his life for the one Adam lost for all of us.

From your perspective, the “ransom” or the “redemption price” paid by Christ’s death, makes no sense.
This scripture does not say that the death is spiritual…it is physical, like Christ’s….if Adam had never disobeyed, then access to “the tree of life“ would never have been denied to him and his offspring….it would have meant everlasting life right here on earth, where God put us in the first place.

Evicting the first humans from their garden paradise to the cursed ground outside, would mean that physical death was inevitable because there was now a separation of the humans from their Creator. Not only that but sin and evil were now in the human psyche, which means that if the humans did not know sin and evil, then they could never commit it.

Isn’t that what God intended when he made man without a knowledge of good and evil? Humans were to depend on God to determine what was good and what was bad. So what Adam stole from the human race was the very thing that God had wanted to keep to himself.…and as we have seen, with the depth of evil in the world….it was for a very good reason. So many humans do not know the difference.
Romans 5:12 is talking about dying spiritually, not physically. Physical death is a natural part of the creation. We know that because even though one who has been forgiven of all sin, and made alive (spiritually) dies physically. Therefore, even though one is in Christ and has received eternal life, one dies physically.
Physical death was never a natural part of creation……who told you that? Find one statement from God where he told Adam that would die, other than eating the fruit that God claimed as his own property.

Death can occur both spiritually and physically, but in the garden, spiritual death came as a result of Adam’s actions, his choice to disobey, even though he knew the penalty….physical death followed because access to the only thing that would maintain mortal life on earth indefinitely, was denied…..for the rest of human history, until the sacrifice that Jesus made for us is applied at his return.

Only with the institution of his Kingdom, ruling over redeemed mankind will God’s first purpose for the human race be reinstated….and everlasting life on earth be restored. The detour we had to take was a learning curve for all of God’s free willed children.…because the first rebel was not human.
We all are able to choose not to sin and most do that most of the time. It is just that no one except Jesus has ever done that perfectly. Lusts of the flesh is inherent in the flesh. It is integral to being human.
The Bible disagrees with you…we all sin because of the inborn tendency to make bad decisions, often dictated by our fallen flesh….the one Paul described in Rom 7:18-23.

But 1 John 5:18 makes a distinction…..
”We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him.“ (ESV)

What is this really telling us? Those who come to Christ desire to repent of past mistakes and accept a new way of life which requires a new way of thinking. All actions are preceded by thoughts….so a determination is made not to “keep sinning” but to ask for God’s help through Jesus Christ, to keep us FROM sinning as best we can in our imperfect flesh. Help is a prayer away.
How you could be tempted in something that you have absolutely no interest?
Exactly….without the desire, there is no temptation…like trying to tempt a child with broccoli instead of candy.
What did the devil tempt Jesus with….? Self interest….the very opposite of what Jesus taught…to put love of God and neighbor before your own self interest.
So much “giving” in the world is fake….done only to make oneself look good….or out of a sense of duty, not love.
 
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