Why faith alone? The answer...

Jabre · Apr 18, 2025

bro.tan said:
As long as you following Jesus foot steps and keeping his Commandments, Statues and Judgements, you should have no problem walking down that narrow path in truth and righteousness. But Jesus warn us that this walk is not easy. Jesus says in Matthew 10: 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

The problem in your household starts when you began obeying all of God's laws and statues of conduct, from the ten commandments to the least commandment. We cannot choose to obey one without obeying the others. For instance, if it's still good to pay tithes (as many preach), then it is still good to obey God's dietary law (not eating pork, catfish, etc...Leviticus 11:1-47). Similarly, you cannot purposely trip a blind person (Leviticus 19:14) and claim to love your neighbor as yourself. Neither can you break God's Sabbath days (Leviticus 19:30) and claim to love God with all your heart, soul and mind.

Many, I say many fight to uphold man's traditional holidays (Sunday the 1st day as the Sabbath, Christmas, Easter and Halloween), but few are obeying God's Holy Days (Saturday the 7th day Sabbath, the Passover, Pentecost, etc...Leviticus 23:1-44). All of God's laws are still good and must be obeyed if we want eternal life and come up in the first resurrection. We might not be able to observe everything perfectly, but can fight a good fight. Paul said in (1 Cor. 9:24-27) (v.24) Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. (v.25) And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown: but we an incorruptible. Paul says that when you run in a race every body is running for a prize. But this prize that he is referring to is eternal life, that’s what he means by an incorruptible, he’s talking about an incorruptible body, a heavenly body. (v.26) I therefore so run, not as uncertainly, so fight, not as one that beateth the air: (v.27) But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. You see Paul knew exactly what was going on that why he says he has to bring his body under subjection. Under subjection to what? To God’s Law, Paul knew that if he didn’t continue to keep Gods law that even after he had preached to many that he himself could still become a castaway.

If we do this our prize awaits us at the end. "...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).

I'll leave this discussion off at, Torah observance for Christians wasn't an idea recorded anywhere until the mid 1800s, outside of a few heretical groups in the 2nd and 3rd century.
I'm curious, where were all the true believers in that time? People use this logic all the time for things like the Pre-Trib Rapture or Charasmatic type "spiritual warfare" and "gifts", but it's very rare in this case.
Maybe you don't, but it is something to consider.

DJT_47 · Apr 19, 2025

Soyeong said:
Baptism of repentance is inherently acting in faith because it is turning away from doing what is right in our own eyes and trusting God to guide us.

Yes, but the point is it's required for salvation, no different than belief, faith, confession, and repentance, and is a command to believers as noted in Mk 16:15-16; and its not a work, as many here erroneously claim, as though it was a work of the flesh

dremnant · Apr 19, 2025

Approximately 2000 years after the gospel was first proclaimed, and people are still confused between requirements vs results/proof of salvation.

DJT_47 · Apr 20, 2025

dremnant said:
Approximately 2000 years after the gospel was first proclaimed, and people are still confused between requirements vs results/proof of salvation.

It's bias, predetermined notions that people have, and not confusion over what the word clearly and simply says.

bro.tan · Apr 21, 2025

Jabre said:
I'll leave this discussion off at, Torah observance for Christians wasn't an idea recorded anywhere until the mid 1800s, outside of a few heretical groups in the 2nd and 3rd century.
I'm curious, where were all the true believers in that time? People use this logic all the time for things like the Pre-Trib Rapture or Charasmatic type "spiritual warfare" and "gifts", but it's very rare in this case.
Maybe you don't, but it is something to consider.

Let's take a look at some history......When Emperor Constantine became a Christian, Christianity became the state religion you remember. As thousands of sun-worshipers flocked into the church, it wasn't long before they had a dominating influence. Most of his top officials had been sun-worshipers. Because the Roman government was getting shaky, Constantine consulted with his aides and with the church officials in Rome.

"What shall we do? How can we unite and stabilize the government?"

The counsel of the church leaders was timely.

"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

That was it! It would satisfy the sun-worshiping pagans, and unite pagans, Christians, and the Roman empire as never before.

The year is 321 A.D. Constantine, yielding to the suggestion of church leaders passes the first Sunday law! Here it is, straight out of the record:

Dan Clarkston · Sunday at 12:35 PM

Jabre said:
Genesis 15:6
"Then he believed in the LORD, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."

Yep and then Abraham ACTED ON WHAT HE BELIEVED

James 2:21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If one does not turn from their sins, putting on the new man which is created in righteousness and true holiness (Ephesians 4:24) and actually live for the Lord... they won't be spending eternity with the Lord because they are sowing to the flesh reaping corruption (Gal 6:7,8)

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Notice this is "thru the Spirit" so this is not someone doing things in their own strength earning their salvation but it is submitting one's live to the Lord

The religious minded among us seek to claim one can continue in their sin and still be saved claiming all one has to do is believe Jesus existed which is all they are doing in their religious social clubs they call churches where you can't tell the difference between them and unbelievers out in the world because they live in darkness just like the world

Jabre said:
We can only come to God when He draws us.

That's laughable that some believe the reason all the unsaved people aren't saved is because the Lord did not draw them

They believe this tripe because they don't know the Lord or His Word! There are cherry pickers among us!

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to ALL men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth ALL men every where to repent:

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for EVERY man.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jabre said:
Respectfully, this is kind of a strawman.

That's what the cherry pickers keep sayin... those that don't accept the whole counsel of God who only believe a few passages that seemingly support the false doctrines of calvin, luther, and augustine who are all heretics

dremnant said:
I guess you are not aware. There is this growing population of false teachers who use religion to make money. They teach whatever makes people feel happy and justified of their sinful lives.

Exactly... most people have itching ears so the devil sends false teachers to scratch them.

Jesus said many would come in His Name and would deceive many

Dan Clarkston · Sunday at 12:37 PM

bro.tan said:
"Pass a Sunday law. Force everyone to cease work and honor Sunday."

Before that... the Apostles were meeting on Sunday... can you find that in the New Testament?

There's nothing wrong with believers gathering on Sunday.

bro.tan · Sunday at 4:12 PM

Dan Clarkston said:
Before that... the Apostles were meeting on Sunday... can you find that in the New Testament?

There's nothing wrong with believers gathering on Sunday.

We never going to find the apostles using Sunday as a Sabbath day instead of Saturday (Seventh day of the week), but I'll bless you with understanding where that may have came from.

The Acts of the Apostles is the second book attributed to Luke, I believe written about 80-90 A.D., we now come to one of the most frequently quoted verses of Paul to support the false teaching of the sacredness of Sunday: (Acts: 20: 7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Now let’s take a close look at this verse and dissect it a little. Notice Paul continued his speech until midnight! It was after sunset, but prior to midnight. The first day of the week in biblical times did not begin at midnight, as men begin it today.

The Lord’s days begin and end at evening (sunset). (Gen. 1:5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first. All biblical days began and ended at sunset. Throughout the Roman world at that time, and for a few hundred years afterward, days began and ended at sunset. The practice of beginning the new day at midnight was started much later.

So this meeting, and Paul’s preaching, took place during the time that we now call Saturday night. Remember when dealing with the Lord’s days the evening comes first. If you read more than just that one verse you would see what actually happen. Paul’s companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night and early Sunday. They had set sail Saturday night, after the sabbath had ended. Paul remained behind for one more farewell sermon. Then at day break Sunday morning, Paul set afoot, walking from Tro’-as to As’-sos to meet the ship. So actually Paul left Sunday Morning, but this verse (Acts: 20:7) says nothing about a change of the Lord’s Holy Sabbath day. And the term “break bread” simply means to eat, so every time Paul ate he broke bread, search it out for your self, the bible tells you to; (1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

The keeping of Sunday as the Christian Sabbath is not of God but of Man. If you are a true Christian, which means a follower of Christ or to be Christ like; then why are you following a day set up by man? We have proved that Paul kept the Lord’s Sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Christ. So why are you going to church on the first day of the week? Well if you don’t know history will tell you why.

ORIGIN OF SUNDAY WORSHIP

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

mailmandan · Wednesday at 6:25 AM

KUWN said:
There is no such doctrine in the Scriptures of becoming saved over a period of time. Salvation is a one time event by those who accept God's offer of Salvation. The word Salvation can also refer to our Sanctification, which is our ongoing progression in becoming more Christ-like. Salvation, when referring to when someone actually gets saved, is not a process, it is single event which happens when the person accepts Christ as his savior at a specific time and place.

If you don't make this distinction between Salvation and Sanctification, you likely will take on the false teaching of salvation by works. I might add this passage from Rom 11.32 to help answer why we are all condemned. God condemned us all so he could have mercy on all. So, God condemning mankind was a blessing in disguise.

Yes, there are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by works-salvationists.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (progressive or ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

mailmandan · Wednesday at 6:49 AM

DJT_47 said:
Following and being obedient is a commandment and requirement. Jesus said "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mk 16:15-16). And God will take vengeance on those that "obey not the gospel: (1 Thes 1:8). Pretty clear. Faith ain't enough.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely necessary for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism. *NOWHERE does the Bible say, "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then we would expect Jesus to mention it in the following verses. (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) Yet what is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions NINE different times in each of these complete statements *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” Pretty clear. Faith/believing the gospel is enough because Jesus is enough. Jesus Christ is the OBJECT of our faith and the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Romans 3:24-28) For you to say faith ain't enough is for you to say Jesus ain't enough, which explains why you refuse to place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation, and instead, you turn to supplements/works salvation.

DJT_47 · Wednesday at 6:57 AM

mailmandan said:
Yes, there are 3 tenses to salvation that often get confused by works-salvationists.

1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification)
2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (progressive or ongoing sanctification)
3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

When one is saved, it's from past sins

mailmandan · Wednesday at 7:29 AM

DJT_47 said:
When one is saved, it's from past sins

Not merely past sins, as if Christ is an insufficient Savior, but all sins. (Acts 13:39; Colossians 2:13)

Behold · Wednesday at 7:42 AM

Soyeong said:
Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin

When a lifetime sinner comes to God, through faith in Christ, then God eternally saves them,.... not based on how they will behave later,....but only based on The Cross of Christ.

Salvation has nothing to do with how we behave after we are saved by God.

Salvation occurs : "while you were YET a sinner"..

How do you know?

Because "all have sinned"......and "Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".

Salvation is Jesus on The Cross........as "THE WAY".. to God... John 14:6.....and once you have believed in THE WAY.. then God "is faithful to complete your salvation"

If you are trying to complete it, by confessing sin, or worrying about "how to keep from losing your salvation" then your TOTAL LACK OF Understanding of Salvation, as "justificiation by Faith" "without works or deeds of the Law"......is obvious.

DJT_47 · Wednesday at 8:03 AM

mailmandan said:
Not merely past sins, as if Christ is an insufficient Savior, but all sins. (Acts 13:39; Colossians 2:13)

That's exactly what you're initially saved from. Further sinning requires repentance and prayer for forgiveness.

KUWN · Wednesday at 8:14 AM

DJT_47 said:
Following and being obedient is a commandment and requirement. Jesus said "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" (Mk 16:15-16). And God will take vengeance on those that "obey not the gospel: (1 Thes 1:8). Pretty clear. Faith ain't enough.

The older and better manuscripts do not have the Mark passage you cited (Mk 16:15-16). Mark ends at the end of verse 8. For the Greek students, you will see several words that Mark does not use elsewhere. In other words, the text from Mark 16.9 to the end of the chap has many words used that Mark does not use elsewhere in his (Peter's) Gospel.

mailmandan · Wednesday at 8:18 AM

DJT_47 said:
That's exactly what you're initially saved from. Further sinning requires repentance and prayer for forgiveness.

So, Christ merely "initially" saves us by grace through faith, then after that, we maintain our salvation by repentance and prayer? Is Christ's finished work of redemption the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 3:24-28) or the IN-sufficient means of our salvation?

mailmandan · Wednesday at 8:21 AM

KUWN said:
The older and better manuscripts do not have the Mark passage you cited (Mk 16:15-16). Mark ends at the end of first 8. For the Greek students, you will see several words that Mark does not use elsewhere. In other words, the text from Mark 16.9 to the end of the chap has many words used that Mark does not use elsewhere in his (Peter's) Gospel.

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? | GotQuestions.org

Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation? Do I have to be baptized in order to be saved?

www.gotquestions.org

Lambano · Wednesday at 8:21 AM

KUWN said:
The older and better manuscripts do not have the Mark passage you cited (Mk 16:15-16). Mark ends at the end of first 8. For the Greek students, you will see several words that Mark does not use elsewhere. In other words, the text from Mark 16.9 to the end of the chap has many words used that Mark does not use elsewhere in his (Peter's) Gospel.

DJT_47 · Wednesday at 9:50 AM

KUWN said:
The older and better manuscripts do not have the Mark passage you cited (Mk 16:15-16). Mark ends at the end of first 8. For the Greek students, you will see several words that Mark does not use elsewhere. In other words, the text from Mark 16.9 to the end of the chap has many words used that Mark does not use elsewhere in his (Peter's) Gospel.

Explain "older and better"

KUWN · Wednesday at 2:29 PM

mailmandan said:
So, Christ merely "initially" saves us by grace through faith, then after that, we maintain our salvation by repentance and prayer? Is Christ's finished work of redemption the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (Romans 3:24-28) or the IN-sufficient means of our salvation?

Have no idea what you are saying but I see enough to know you need some serious theology lessons. I would do a systematic study of Sanctification first of all. Salvation is not a process; it is an event. You really need to study the doctrine of Salvation and Sanctification. Unfortunately a serious study requires many months to be able to answer this apparent dilemma.

Why faith alone? The answer...

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