Actually Jesus returns twice...

rebuilder 454 said:

Incorrect.
I do not need Noah in the ark 7 days.
Never have.

Click to expand...

And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation.

rebuilder 454 said:

But here is the kicker...the setting by Jesus in the Noah analogy is normal life , everyday life, and free commerce, and planning for the future.

So right there you have an insurmountable problem.

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I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused.

rebuilder 454 said:

Your dot connecting with the Noah analogy mirrors postrib doctrine error.

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Brother, you have come up with the 6th seal being a prelude or foretelling of the 7th trumpet like post tribbers instead of just recognizing that Jesus comes in power and glory as the 6th seal, just as the Word of God says. It is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars and yet you claim that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is Armageddon. No evidence anything to do with the wrath of God or vengeance in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. And there is no evidence of a harvest occurring when Jesus comes on white horses. And yet that is your position.

Double post

The Light said:

And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation.


I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused.


Brother, you have come up with the 6th seal being a prelude or foretelling of the 7th trumpet like post tribbers instead of just recognizing that Jesus comes in power and glory as the 6th seal, just as the Word of God says. It is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars and yet you claim that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is Armageddon. No evidence anything to do with the wrath of God or vengeance in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. And there is no evidence of a harvest occurring when Jesus comes on white horses. And yet that is your position.

Click to expand...

Nope.
I Never needed ANY 7 DAYS...7 YEAR ANYTHING with what you are pushing falsely.

HELLO....if you go back IT WAS YOU PUSHING THAT.
YOU DID THAT.
And then postribbers showed you that ON THE SAME DAY....Noah entered the ark.
I sat back and ate popcorn watching yall batting the air.
I never have and never will need any such ark loading or Noah placed in the ark 7 days.
Nope nope nope.
Maybe you are transposing your past mistake on to me?????????

The Light said:

And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation.


I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused.


Brother, you have come up with the 6th seal being a prelude or foretelling of the 7th trumpet like post tribbers instead of just recognizing that Jesus comes in power and glory as the 6th seal, just as the Word of God says. It is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars and yet you claim that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is Armageddon. No evidence anything to do with the wrath of God or vengeance in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. And there is no evidence of a harvest occurring when Jesus comes on white horses. And yet that is your position.

Click to expand...

QUOTE
"I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused."
You claim Noah and Lot analogies are separate comings.
One pretrib
One postrib.
That is incorrect.

The Light said:

And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation.


I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused.


Brother, you have come up with the 6th seal being a prelude or foretelling of the 7th trumpet like post tribbers instead of just recognizing that Jesus comes in power and glory as the 6th seal, just as the Word of God says. It is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars and yet you claim that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is Armageddon. No evidence anything to do with the wrath of God or vengeance in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. And there is no evidence of a harvest occurring when Jesus comes on white horses. And yet that is your position.

Click to expand...

I never said or believed there is a harvest at the white horses.
The problem that you have is that in Matthew 24. He says after the tribulation. Jesus comes in power and great glory.
And that can only be the white horses. There's no other place that Jesus comes in power and great glory, Except on the white horse coming at Armageddon.

Again dan 9.
In the middle of the trib, (one week/7 yr period of time) the aod is committed.
7 yr trib.
The last half is the wrath.

rebuilder 454 said:

QUOTE
"I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused."
You claim Noah and Lot analogies are separate comings.
One pretrib
One postrib.
That is incorrect.

Click to expand...

One pretrib and one pre wrath. Yeah pre wrath is post trib, but post tribbers don't recognize that post trib is post wrath because they want to make the 6th seal the same as the 7th trumpet, which of course it's not.

rebuilder 454 said:

I never said or believed there is a harvest at the white horses.

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I know. And yet the coming of Jesus is Matthew 24 is Jesus coming for a harvest before the wrath of God.

So since you understand that there are two raptures, where in Revelation does the second rapture occur........what seal?

rebuilder 454 said:

The problem that you have is that in Matthew 24. He says after the tribulation. Jesus comes in power and great glory.
And that can only be the white horses. There's no other place that Jesus comes in power and great glory, Except on the white horse coming at Armageddon.

Click to expand...

There are no problems. Jesus comes in power and glory at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. He sends His angels to gather the elect before the wrath of God. Why you are unable to recognize this I don't know.

rebuilder 454 said:

Again dan 9.
In the middle of the trib, (one week/7 yr period of time) the aod is committed.
7 yr trib.
The last half is the wrath.

Click to expand...

Tribulation is not wrath. The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. There is a harvest seen in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24, which is the harvest of Revelation 14. After this harvest, the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins. Believers are not appointed to wrath. This is why there is a harvest at the 6th seal when Jesus comes in power and glory.

There is a final week that begins when a covenant with many is made.

The great tribulation does not begin until the middle of this week. There is no 7 year tribulation.

When God deals with Israel after the Church is raptured, there are 3.5 year remaining.

Those are the 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel.

When will you understand that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal and the seventh seal is the wrath of God,

You think tribulation and Gods wrath are the same thing. They are not.

rebuilder 454 said:

Nope.
I Never needed ANY 7 DAYS...7 YEAR ANYTHING with what you are pushing falsely.

Click to expand...

Then why do you claim there is a 7 tribulation?

rebuilder 454 said:

HELLO....if you go back IT WAS YOU PUSHING THAT.
YOU DID THAT.
And then postribbers showed you that ON THE SAME DAY....Noah entered the ark.

Click to expand...

LOL. You better relook at Genesis 7. Noah does enter the ark on the day of the flood. Noah, his family and all the animals enter the ark on the self same day. That means everyone enters the ark in ONE day. The day is the first day of the 7, the day he was instructed to enter. And we don't know what day the Lord sealed the ark.

rebuilder 454 said:

I sat back and ate popcorn watching yall batting the air.
I never have and never will need any such ark loading or Noah placed in the ark 7 days.

Click to expand...

You need a 7 year tribulation apparently.

ewq1938 said:

Post trib is post satan's wrath in the trib, then the Coming and rapture, then God's wrath.

Post trib is post satan's wrath but pre God's wrath.

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That all sounds good, but don't you believe that the 6th seal is the 7th trumpet, and Gods wrath is 30 minutes of silence in heaven?

The Light said:

I don't need anything. I deal is facts and the fact Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood is one of many proofs that the Church is not in heaven 7 years before the final week.


And yet you seem unable to understand the difference between the great tribulation and the one year wrath of God.


And yet who taught you that there are two raptures. What site did you learn this from?

Is two raptures in error because most do not understand this Biblical fact?

Why you are unable to see that the second rapture occurs at the 6th seal is a puzzle. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

Click to expand...

QUOTE
"And yet you seem unable to understand the difference between the great tribulation and the one year wrath of God."

Your private interpretation.
No such thing as one year wrath of God.
Nada.
The AOD HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 7 YR TRIB OF DANIEL 9...as stated by Gods word.
HELLO...the wrath Begins after the Jewish rapture of rev 14:14.
(Rev 15)
Only one coming "with power and great glory", and that is at Rev 19, the white horses.
Yet you claim the other 2 are in power and great glory.
I suppose that means the P.A.G.G., Can not be at rev 19? (The white horse coming).
In your doctrine, the white horse coming from heaven happens even though you say Jesus returns during the erroneous "one year wrath".
Now where are the saints that are currently in heaven during your one year wrath, since he already came before the wrath?( in power and great glory).P.A.G.G.

The Light said:

And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation.


I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused.


Brother, you have come up with the 6th seal being a prelude or foretelling of the 7th trumpet like post tribbers instead of just recognizing that Jesus comes in power and glory as the 6th seal, just as the Word of God says. It is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars and yet you claim that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is Armageddon. No evidence anything to do with the wrath of God or vengeance in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. And there is no evidence of a harvest occurring when Jesus comes on white horses. And yet that is your position.

Click to expand...

QUOTE
"And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation"
7 yrs according to Daniel.
IN THE MIDDLE the AOD IS COMMITTED.
Call the 7yr any whatever your doctrine allows.
It is a seven yr period, and the white horse rider, ( that you say is just a minimal trouble maker), IS THE AC, AND HE kicks off the 7 yr "non trib party" that is whatever "trib" you ascribe to it.
Call it:
*the "7 yr party."
*The" 7 yr non trib."
*The "non 7 yr 7years."
*The Daniel is mistaken 7 yrs."
*The "3.5 +1 final days not 7 yr anything" eschatology.
*The "3.5 yr + no AOD, +1 yr non Daniel 4.5 yr doctrine."

The Light said:

And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation.


I'm pretrib and pre wrath. I have no problem. You are talking to too many post tribbers and getting confused.


Brother, you have come up with the 6th seal being a prelude or foretelling of the 7th trumpet like post tribbers instead of just recognizing that Jesus comes in power and glory as the 6th seal, just as the Word of God says. It is clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars and yet you claim that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is Armageddon. No evidence anything to do with the wrath of God or vengeance in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24. And there is no evidence of a harvest occurring when Jesus comes on white horses. And yet that is your position.

Click to expand...

Nope.
In mat 24 "after the trib"
You are Definately aligning with postribbers who think Jesus was wrong when he said "angels are sent" ( meaning Jesus is not there with them gathering) , not Jesus, "to gather in heaven"..NOT EARTH.
In mat 24 "After the trib" ,You are actually going against the bible, as do postribs, IN 2 DYNAMICS.
1) you have Jesus harvesting (as in Rev 14), when he actually SENDS ANGELS.
2) you have him coming in power and great glory, while ascribing that obvious post 7 yr coming, to a non P.A.G.G. coming due to not understanding it NEEDS TO FIT.

It is confusion ascribing P.A.G.G. to a coming that has none of that.

The 10 virgin parable, is therefore, more confusion to you.

rebuilder 454 said:

QUOTE
"And yet you seem unable to understand the difference between the great tribulation and the one year wrath of God."

Your private interpretation.
No such thing as one year wrath of God.
Nada.

Click to expand...

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

Isaiah 34 occurs at the 6th seal.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 61:2
2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

If you need more proof that the wrath of God is one year let me know.

rebuilder 454 said:

The AOD HAPPENS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 7 YR TRIB OF DANIEL 9...as stated by Gods word.

Click to expand...

There are NO verses that say the there is a 7 year tribulation.

And there are no verses that say that the Church will be raptured before the final week beings.

rebuilder 454 said:

HELLO...the wrath Begins after the Jewish rapture of rev 14:14.

Click to expand...

Well you got this right. Your error is thinking that I don't understand this.

rebuilder 454 said:

(Rev 15)
Only one coming "with power and great glory", and that is at Rev 19, the white horses.
Yet you claim the other 2 are in power and great glory.

Click to expand...

I go by the Word of God. In Matthew 24 Jesus comes in power and glory when the sun, and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

You should find that when the 6th seal is opened, those signs take place. End of story. Jesus returns and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

There are not verses of Armageddon or wrath in Matthew 24. There is no evidence that there is a harvest in Revelation 19. Revelation 19 is Armageddon.

Why you are unable to understand the difference between the great tribulation, which is over at the 6th seal and the wrath of God which is the 7th seal is unknown.

Why you are unable to understand that the great tribulation is when the dragon is killing believers and the wrath of God which is when God is punishing unbelievers is unknown.

These are simple FACTS to understand.

rebuilder 454 said:

I suppose that means the P.A.G.G., Can not be at rev 19? (The white horse coming).
In your doctrine, the white horse coming from heaven happens even though you say Jesus returns during the erroneous "one year wrath".

Click to expand...

If you need more proof that the wrath of God lasts one year before Jesus returns on white horses, let me know.

rebuilder 454 said:

Now where are the saints that are currently in heaven during your one year wrath, since he already came before the wrath?( in power and great glory).P.A.G.G.

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Do you not understand that the great multitude is in heaven for the marriage supper? And at the end of a year Jesus will return on white horses for Armageddon.

rebuilder 454 said:

QUOTE

Now where are the saints that are currently in heaven during your one year wrath, since he already came before the wrath?( in power and great glory).P.A.G.G.

Click to expand...

Jesus comes for the Church before the great tribulation. The Church is seen in heaven before the seals are opened in Revelation 5. Jesus returns in power and glory at the 6th seal for the harvest of the Jews at the gathering from heaven and earth. This is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. This is why the great and the rich and kings etc. are trying to hide in caves at the 6th seal.

All believers return to heaven for the one year wrath of God. Only those that flee to a place of protection in the nation of Israel, the two witnesses and unbelievers are on the earth during the 7th seal wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

rebuilder 454 said:

QUOTE
"And yet you claim that the Church will be in heaven before the nonexistent 7 year tribulation"
7 yrs according to Daniel.
IN THE MIDDLE the AOD IS COMMITTED.
Call the 7yr any whatever your doctrine allows.
It is a seven yr period, and the white horse rider, ( that you say is just a minimal trouble maker), IS THE AC, AND HE kicks off the 7 yr "non trib party" that is whatever "trib" you ascribe to it.
Call it:
*the "7 yr party."
*The" 7 yr non trib."
*The "non 7 yr 7years."
*The Daniel is mistaken 7 yrs."
*The "3.5 +1 final days not 7 yr anything" eschatology.
*The "3.5 yr + no AOD, +1 yr non Daniel 4.5 yr doctrine."

Click to expand...

It's 7 years but it is not 7 years of tribulation. The great tribulation does not begin until the middle of the week. The Church will be raptured before the great tribulation, then God turns His attention to the Jews. There are 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel; time, times and half a time.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

rebuilder 454 said:

Nope.
In mat 24 "after the trib"
You are Definately aligning with postribbers who think Jesus was wrong when he said "angels are sent" ( meaning Jesus is not there with them gathering) , not Jesus, "to gather in heaven"..NOT EARTH.
In mat 24 "After the trib" ,You are actually going against the bible, as do postribs, IN 2 DYNAMICS.
1) you have Jesus harvesting (as in Rev 14), when he actually SENDS ANGELS.
2) you have him coming in power and great glory, while ascribing that obvious post 7 yr coming, to a non P.A.G.G. coming due to not understanding it NEEDS TO FIT.

It is confusion ascribing P.A.G.G. to a coming that has none of that.

The 10 virgin parable, is therefore, more confusion to you.

Click to expand...

Rebuilder,
I am going by what the Word of God says. It says Jesus returns in power and glory and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. The Word says that the great tribulation is over when the sun and are darkened and the stars fall from heaven. This occurs at the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

You falsely believe that the great tribulation when the dragon is killing believers is the same thing as the wrath of God when God is punishing unbelievers. You believe this because this is what is taught. I don't believe this because it does not agree with the Word of God.

There is nothing in the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 that shows anything about the wrath of God or Armageddon. Matthew 24 shows a harvest.

There is nothing in Revelation 19 that shows a harvest and yet you cling to what has been taught instead of believing what is written.

The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The seventh seal is the wrath of God. I have no clue why this is hard to understand.

rebuilder 454 said:

Nope.
In mat 24 "after the trib"

Click to expand...

Why is Jesus coming immediately AFTER the tribulation?

If the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus in Revelation 19 as you claim, wouldn't Jesus come and speak the Word and destroy the armies at Armageddon and end the tribulation? Why is He coming after the tribulation and not before it is over?

What will it take to get you to see?

rebuilder 454 said:

Double post

Click to expand...

If you are referring to your post, I think you have an option down on the edit line to delete the post.