What is the difference between the soul and the spirit?
- Thread starter Armour of God
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
No, not at all. These are just souls that have left their bodies when they died and were not qualified to rate the lowest hell according to God's judgment, but were not saved, so they roam the earth or inhabit former dwelling places. We see that the devil and his angels are thrown into the lake of fire, but I think from Jesus' statements concerning the outer darkness, this particular group possibly are the ones that are in the outer darkness. Because they have rejected Christ they can't inherit the new heaven and earth when this planet is eventually destroyed, so when this planet is gone, all that is left will be that cold outer darkness that Jesus described.
Hillsage queried:
<What translations>
ESV for casual reading. For study I access the Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek via interlinear English/Greek Bible and interlinear English/Hebrew-Aramaic Bible.
<Earth and heaven flee away>
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1).
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 20:1)
God creates, God disposes.
<Dead small and great standing before God>
IM0: The unregenerate are confined to the lake of fire (within the earth) until the end of the Millennium. Then they are disposed after their summary judgment (all "standing before God").
"Might" (John 3:17) = Greek ινα = "in order that" (Oxford Greek Dictionary), hence "in order that he might/should." It indicates purpose.
Of course the word of the Lord is perfect (Psalm 18:30), hence the outcome is certain.
Last edited:
Revelation 20:11-25 describes the judgment of the unsaved dead after the millennium. Some died at sea, some died in the Genesis flood.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
You have an Interlinear of the OT only? I haven't even heard of one of those.
Do you have any NT Greek Interlinears?
Do you also use something like Strong's Concordance for their Hebrew/Greek dictionary/lexicon in your studies?
In post 56 when when I asked;
"First question; What "earth and heaven" would "flee away" from the face of "Him"? And 'why' would they do so? Especially if "Him" was Jesus?"
In that question I was referencing your "Compare with Genesis 1:1" quote above. But in Young's literal translation, that "heaven" isn't singular in Genisis it is plural.
YLT In the beginning of God's preparing the HEAVENS and the earth -
Your NIV OT Interlinear should confirm that point.
So check it and then tell me which one of "the heavens" in Gen 1:1 and Rev 20:11 you are referring to that "flee from the face of Jesus? Because only ONE HEAVEN is mentioned in Rev 20:11.
REV 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
I am asking because in 20:12 it goes on to say ALL THE DEAD were judged. That includes CHRISTIANS who died.
REV 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
You appear to be assuming that only unbelievers are dead at the Great White Throne judgment. And most who believe that, think Christians are exempt. But as you see above The Great White Throne judgment is based upon "their/our works" and not the work of Jesus on the cross.
Young's Literal Translation JOH 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son - the only begotten - He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
As you can plainly see, the gospel says we aren't supposed to "PERISH" or DIE after "believing in him", so why are we? Personally I think it's because of your quote which I totally agree with.
And a sinner is one who commits a sin. Right? Just like Adam did. And that one sin led to his death. Same as James declares; "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. (James 2:10)
As an Ultimate reconciliation believer, translating the John 3:16 Greek word aionion into "life AGE-during" is why I disagree with the traditions we inherited from Rome.
IMO:
"Heavens fled (away)" = "the universe replaced by a new universe," since sin corrupts the sinner and everything associated with the sinner.
Yes, I have a separate Hebrew/Aramaic Old Testament and a Greek New Testament, both with English interlinear. The average person would likely have little interest in such interlinears.
Last edited:
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
REV 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
As I said in your last post, this judgment was all "the dead". Christian and non believers alike. And all the dead were judged by their works, both good and bad. And all of us have a book of life concerning good works we've all done or have not done, from birth. Don't Christians always tell unbelievers that "God has a plan for your life."? When do you think that plan started? Is it the day you got them to say YES! Or did it start a week later when some other "Christian" witnessed to them?
Two groups are in the throne room. One group (the "overcomer" believers) are sitting IN the throne in their white robes. But the group of those standing before the throne are those believers in their white robes who were not overcomers.
YLT REV 3:18, 21 I counsel thee to buy from me gold fired by fire, that thou mayest be rich, and white garments that thou mayest be arrayed, and the shame of thy nakedness may not be manifest, and with eye-salve anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see. :21* He who is overcoming - I will give to him to sit with me in my throne, as I also did overcome and did sit down with my Father IN His throne.
YLT REV 7:9 After these things I saw, and lo, a great multitude, which to number no one was able, out of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands,
2443 hina: in order that (denoting the purpose or the result)
I don't care what the definition of the Greek word ινα is.
Other Greek interlinears have the Greek word SOZO instead of HINA.
4982 sozo: to save, i.e. deliver or protect (lit. or fig.)
the literal and figurative def. of the word isn't MIGHT, it is TO SAVE. But if you have a different Greek translation than most and ινα or hina has replaced SOZO then I have this comment below.
"MIGHT" or "MAY"
I asked my friend, Dr. Michael Jones, a Hebrew and Greek scholar, what he thought of “might” in John 3:17. Here is a man that only reads the New Testament in the Greek language. In fact, he teaches N.T. Greek. He explained to me in a very simple way: Using “might” in John 3:17 is not good translating. The force of the subjunctive here is not like 'a maybe', or 'a might'. That is why many translators leave “might” out, i.e., to keep the English-only reader from getting confused. The subjunctive can be 'a might', i.e., 'a possibility'–a maybe–a might, and yet, it can also emphasize a statement of fact better than the indicative mood/mode. So, let me illustrate this in English: If a translator gave us a transport from a CRITICAL METHOD of translation theory, he might write: “Bob hit the ball over the fence so that he might have a home-run”. But a translator using a DYNAMIC EQUIVALENT model of translation theory might write it like this: “Bob hit the ball over the fence to get a home-run.” Note that the subjunctive is there, but difficult to see in English.”
Similar threads
