The taken and the left

PinSeeker · Saturday at 1:42 PM

1stCenturyLady said:
They still have free will.

Nobody said they didn't...

1stCenturyLady said:
It is His angels that would obey Jesus' command and take them "to where they do not want to go."

Hmmm...

"And then will (Jesus) declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness’" (Matthew 7:23).

"Then (Jesus) will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels... (a)nd these will go away into eternal punishment..." (Matthew 25:41, 46)

The Son of Man sending His angels, and they gathering out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace" of Jesus's parable in Matthew 13:41 is a shocking image, for sure, but it's an image, much in the same vein as a judge having judged a defendant guilty and having his or her bailiff and other officers "throw" the defendant into prison.

1stCenturyLady said:
PLOP PLOP, FIZZ FIZZ OH NO!

LOL! Not even sure what that even means... <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

1stCenturyLady · Saturday at 4:58 PM

PinSeeker said:
LOL! Not even sure what that even means... <chuckles>

You must be young. Its from an old commercial on TV for a product called Alka-Seltzer for indigestion. "PLOP PLOP, FIZZ FIZZ, OH WHAT A RELIEF IT IS."

PinSeeker said:
Nobody said they didn't...

So with their free will they are going to walk into the lake of fire? They've never obeyed Jesus before, but you think they will then? No, they are taken there by force by God's angels assigned for this duty. This is why we need to look at TOOK as bad, and LEFT as good in the parable of two in the field, one is taken, the other left....

rebuilder 454 · Sunday at 4:41 PM

1stCenturyLady said:
You must be young. Its from an old commercial on TV for a product called Alka-Seltzer for indigestion. "PLOP PLOP, FIZZ FIZZ, OH WHAT A RELIEF IT IS."

So with their free will they are going to walk into the lake of fire? They've never obeyed Jesus before, but you think they will then? No, they are taken there by force by God's angels assigned for this duty. This is why we need to look at TOOK as bad, and LEFT as good in the parable of two in the field, one is taken, the other left....

Before the flood ( pretrib) half are taken and half left behind.

Interesting how that morrors a pretrib rapture.

And nothing of your doctrine

IndianaRob · Sunday at 5:11 PM

Has anybody explained who’s dead body “the taken” are taken too?

Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

doctrox · Sunday at 5:12 PM

rebuilder 454 said:
The "ones taken" in the Greek is translated "taken to a good place"

Again, you are publishing a falsehood. You add "to a good place." Nowhere in your "documentation" is such a phrase found. A liar is one who speaks against the truth. IOW, you lied - not by slur but by scriptural definition.

doctrox said:
This falsehood is without scriptural support; it's recklessness born of a searing of the conscience and it compromises everything that follows it.

Trusting corrupt Greek lex-icons adds insult to injury. Rather, it's easy to compare scripture with scripture to determine the meaning of taken. There are only 50 appearances of the word paralambanō - taken. You can read them for yourself here.

PinSeeker · Sunday at 11:19 PM

1stCenturyLady said:
You must be young.

Young at heart, yes. Or at least I try to be. <smile>

1stCenturyLady said:
It’s from an old commercial on TV for a product called Alka-Seltzer for indigestion. "PLOP PLOP, FIZZ FIZZ, OH WHAT A RELIEF IT IS."

I’m well aware… <smile> It just struck me as totally irrelevant.

1stCenturyLady said:
So with their free will they are going to walk into the lake of fire?

<eye roll>

1stCenturyLady said:
They've never obeyed Jesus before, but you think they will then?

They will depart, just as he tells them.

1stCenturyLady said:
No, they are taken there by force by God's angels assigned for this duty.

And to what would you point in order to prove what you say here?

1stCenturyLady said:
This is why we need to look at TOOK as bad, and LEFT as good in the parable of two in the field, one is taken, the other left....

They will not be taken in the sense you suppose, 1CL. Yes, where they go… after the final Judgment… will certainly be bad, though, and a place they certainly don’t want to go and be… like the rich man in Jesus’s parable in Luke 16… that we will certainly agree on.

Grace and peace to you.

PinSeeker · Sunday at 11:33 PM

rebuilder 454 said:
Before the flood ( pretrib) half are taken and half left behind.

During Noah’s flood ~ which was God's judgement, all but Noah and his family (and the animals, of course), all others were swept away. No one was “raptured.” So will it be at the end of the age. The unrepentant, those on Jesus’s left in the final Judgment, having been resurrected to judgment, will depart at Jesus’s command: “Depart from Me, for I never knew you.” This is the second death. <shudder>

rebuilder 454 said:
Interesting how that morrors a pretrib rapture.

Well, it is, in a sense, kinda the opposite, so like looking in a mirror… in a sense… <smile>

Grace and peace to all.

1stCenturyLady · Sunday at 11:55 PM

rebuilder 454 said:
Before the flood ( pretrib) half are taken and half left behind.

Interesting how that morrors a pretrib rapture.

And nothing of your doctrine

Where do you get "half"? That isn't scriptural.

1stCenturyLady · 2026-07-20T00:08:45-0500

PinSeeker said:
It just struck me as totally irrelevant.

Don't you get it? The lake of fire is molten. Those who get thrown in go PLOP PLOP, THEN FIZZ FIZZ, but no relief OH NO. Totally irrelevant? Have you no imagination?

PinSeeker said:
They will depart, just as he tells them.

Not of their own free will. They will be taken to the lake of fire by angels and destroyed.

PinSeeker said:
And to what would you point in order to prove what you say here?

Rev. 20

"And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." That's not skipping into the lake of fire. And it is not Jesus who does the casting, therefore, it is His angels.

PinSeeker said:
They will not be taken in the sense you suppose, 1CL. Yes, where they go… after the final Judgment… will certainly be bad, though, and a place they certainly don’t want to go and be… like the rich man in Jesus’s parable in Luke 16… that we will certainly agree on.

It is written "the lake of fire." Do you have a second choice?

1stCenturyLady · 2026-07-20T05:04:54-0500

PinSeeker said:
During Noah’s flood ~ which was God's judgement, all but Noah and his family (and the animals, of course), all others were swept away. No one was “raptured.” So will it be at the end of the age. The unrepentant, those on Jesus’s left in the final Judgment, having been resurrected to judgment, will depart at Jesus’s command: “Depart from Me, for I never knew you.” This is the second death. <shudder>

So they depart. But do you know where they depart to? What does he do once he gets to the lake of fire? Does he bring a blanket and umbrella.

Lizbeth · 2026-07-20T07:00:39-0500

Matthias said:
“For evildoers will be cut off, but those hoping in ADONAI will inherit the land. Soon the wicked will be no more; you will look for his place, and he won’t be there. But the meek will inherit the land and delight themselves in abundant peace.”

(Psalm 37:9-11, CJB)

If you closed your eyes and someone read this passage of scripture to you, would your mind instantly flash to the Messiah upon hearing it? Do you find yourself listening to the sermon on the mount?

Taken away -> the wicked.

Left -> the righteous.

The inheritance -> the land.

A central theme of biblical faith -> the land.

I suggest to the reader that now we are thinking like Jesus.

Luke 6:40.

I believe earth and land are allegorical for the temple of the body/soul.....our earthen vessel.....so that inheriting the earth/land is a veiled reference to inheriting eternal life.

Lizbeth · 2026-07-20T07:06:04-0500

IndianaRob said:
Has anybody explained who’s dead body “the taken” are taken too?

Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The way that whole passage is written makes me wonder if it is referring to the old man/new man, because the examples Jesus gave were always two of the same gender together...at His coming one will be taken and the other left. I don't know which is which though.

rebuilder 454 · 2026-07-20T09:23:59-0500

1stCenturyLady said:
Where do you get "half"? That isn't scriptural.

50% taken in both of Jesus examples in Matthew 24 and in Matthew 25.
( half taken)
Beyond plain.
What were you saying ??????
Scripture is wrong?????

rebuilder 454 · 2026-07-20T09:29:47-0500

doctrox said:
Again, you are publishing a falsehood. You add "to a good place." Nowhere in your "documentation" is such a phrase found. A liar is one who speaks against the truth. IOW, you lied - not by slur but by scriptural definition.

Trusting corrupt Greek lex-icons adds insult to injury. Rather, it's easy to compare scripture with scripture to determine the meaning of taken. There are only 50 appearances of the word paralambanō - taken. You can read them for yourself here.

Why lie about me ?
I did your research for you.
I Took the time to AUTHENTICATE my claim.

You claiming the Greek text can not be trusted?
That is way way off.
You have to believe, at that point, study is some taboo.
Plain crazy.

The word "TAKEN" IN MAT 24. GREEK ORIGIN
G3880 (strongs reference)
IS-beING-BESIDE-GOTTEN.
paralambanō

1) to take to, to take with one' s self, to join to one' s self
1a) an associate, a companion
1b) metaphorically
1b1) to accept or acknowledge one to be such as he professes to be
1b2) not to reject, not to withhold obedience
2) to receive something transmitted
2a) an office to be discharged
2b) to receive with the mind
2b1) by oral transmission: of the authors from whom the tradition proceeds

rebuilder 454 · 2026-07-20T09:53:46-0500

This will really make some of you mad.

In mat 24 "the flood came and took them away"
It appears the word "took" is speaking of "taking the ark away".

Strongs g142 airo " ....took them all away"
airó: To lift, to take up, to raise, to remove, to carry away.
Original Word: αἴρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: airó
Pronunciation: ah'-ee-ro
Phonetic Spelling: (ah'-ee-ro)
KJV: away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
to take up, take away
A primary root; to lift up; by implication, to take up or away; figuratively, to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind), specially, to sail away (i.e. Weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare nasa') to expiate sin -- away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

See that ????
"To SAIL AWAY"
"TO WEIGH ANCHOR"

Oooops.
Yet another pretrib dynamic.

rebuilder 454 · 2026-07-20T09:54:24-0500

Remember, you are being educated for free!!!

PinSeeker · 2026-07-20T11:02:05-0500

1stCenturyLady said:
Don't you get it? The lake of fire is molten. Those who get thrown in go PLOP PLOP, THEN FIZZ FIZZ, but no relief OH NO.

<chuckles> Ah, okay. <smile>

1stCenturyLady said:
Totally irrelevant?

Yes. <smile>

1stCenturyLady said:
Have you no imagination?

Now that's interesting that you say that... "imagination"... Very interesting. <smile> I don't mean anything untoward by saying this, but I feel sure you will not understand what I mean by that...

1stCenturyLady said:
Not of their own free will.

Right, agreed; we can all say that many things we have done obediently but not of our will; I seem to remember a quote by... Somebody somewhere <chuckles> ...along the lines of "not my will but Yours be done..."

1stCenturyLady said:
They will be taken to the lake of fire by angels and destroyed.

Rev. 20

"And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire." That's not skipping into the lake of fire. And it is not Jesus who does the casting, therefore, it is His angels.

Hmmmm... The "lake of fire" is a shocking image, for sure. And by saying 'image,' here, I'm calling back on what I said just above, regarding 'imagination.' <smile> And the "casting"... You know, two things:

1. In this life, when a criminal is convicted, he or she is cast into prison. But not forcibly thrown, over some long distance like a casting a fishing line into a river. There are different senses regarding something being cast, like that one, or, oh, like a director assigning parts to actors for a movie or play, right? In this case, the casting into prison... into God's eternal judgment. Surely you remember what David said in Psalm 51... "Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me... Cast me not away from Your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me" (Psalm 51:10-12). You see?

2. It's very interesting to me that we would all say that we can't imagine what heaven really looks like... all we know is it will be paradise, and there will be no sin, but what it really looks like we have no idea. But now hell... that's a different story. It's a lake of fire, so yes, the thinking (of many) is that its occupants will be literally in, well, in fire, so in flames... and in a lake, which is a body of water, at the same time... But the two (water and fire) cannot coexist...

Oh... okay, a third thing... <smile>

3. In hell ~ which of course is a real place ~ its occupants will be immersed in God's judgment, ~ our God is a consuming fire (Deuteronomy 4:24, Hebrews 10:27, 12:29) ~ having been resurrected to such (John 5:28-29) and this final judgment having been rendered (Psalm 1:5-6 ; Matthew 7:21-23; 25:41-46; Revelation 20:12-15). Hell's occupants will not be delivered from God's judgment as we will.

1stCenturyLady said:
It is written "the lake of fire."

Indeed. <smile>

1stCenturyLady said:
Do you have a second choice?

Well, we all have a choice... for now... <smile> But then not so much, no.

1stCenturyLady said:
So they depart. But do you know where they depart to?

Well, yes. But we only know about it... what it really looks like we cannot know.

1stCenturyLady said:
What does he do once he gets to the lake of fire?

We get a bit of an idea in Luke 16, as I said... But just a bit. We understand his internal anguish and his torment... to some extent, at least, as much as we can understand eternal, everlasting things... <shudder>

1stCenturyLady said:
Does he bring a blanket and umbrella.

<chuckles> There will be no comfort there. <shudder>

Grace and peace to you.

PinSeeker · 2026-07-20T11:15:36-0500

rebuilder 454 said:
This will really make some of you mad.

Not mad, just... astounded. <smile>

rebuilder 454 said:
In mat 24 "the flood came and took them away"

Who was taken away, Rebuilder? Who? <smile> Not the righteous... <chuckles>

rebuilder 454 said:
It appears the word "took" is speaking of "taking the ark away".

Ahhhh, appears,' hmmm.... <smile> But we don't have to rely on... 'appearances' (even though that's not the appearance at all)... Jesus Himself says who was taken away in those days in Matthew and Luke... "as were the days of Noah... as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." To see that 'they' and 'them all' as referring to Noah and his family is very... backwards.

rebuilder 454 said:
Strongs g142 airo " ....took them all away"
airó: To lift, to take up, to raise, to remove, to carry away.

Ah yes, cast away, in the very same sense as what I said to 1stCenturyLady above. Yes, cast away from His presence. And again, the ark, in Noah's story, is representative of ~ a type, a shadow ~ of Jesus, Who carries us... delivers us, as He did Noah but in the larger sense... through the "storm," this "flood"....

rebuilder 454 said:
Oooops. Yet another pretrib dynamic.

rebuilder 454 said:
Remember, you are being educated for free!!!

<chuckles>

Grace and peace to you.

1stCenturyLady · 2026-07-20T11:59:37-0500

PinSeeker said:
Now that's interesting that you say that... "imagination"... Very interesting. <smile> I don't mean anything untoward by saying this, but I feel sure you will not understand what I mean by that...

You'd be surprised how much I understand.

PinSeeker said:
Right, agreed; we can all say that many things we have done obediently but not of our will; I seem to remember a quote by... Somebody somewhere <chuckles> ...along the lines of "not my will but Yours be done..."

Yeah, I seem to remember somebody saying that...

PinSeeker said:
like a director assigning parts to actors for a movie or play, right?

When I was a lot, and I mean a lot younger, I once had a famous director tell me to get on top of a wrecked car in a pile up on the freeway and, just off the cuff give a 10 minute political speech! I remember feeling like I was cast into the lake of fire that time.

PinSeeker · 2026-07-20T12:12:09-0500

rebuilder 454 said:
50% taken in both of Jesus examples in Matthew 24 and in Matthew 25.
( half taken)

And why cannot what's being said there, rebuilder, only (as if it's some mere thing) to show the difference between one group and another, without any real reference to percentages or portions?

rebuilder 454 said:
Beyond plain.

Ah, well that we agree on... it's not nearly so "plain" ~ in the sense of being so overly simplistic ~ as perhaps it seems... Yes, that's the problem.

1stCenturyLady said:
You'd be surprised how much I understand.

Yeah, I seem to remember somebody saying that...

When I was a lot, and I mean a lot younger, I once had a famous director tell me to get on top of a wrecked car in a pile up on the freeway and, just off the cuff give a 10 minute political speech! I remember feeling like I was cast into the lake of fire that time.

Hm. Okay. Not sure any of that is addressing any of my comments... and maybe just avoiding them... but yeah, okay. <smile>

Grace and peace to you.

The taken and the left

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