MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
I have had a problem with this. I think often that all others are like I used to be. But I was a particularly bad case, very walled off and hard because of my upbringing.
Cleansing by the Word
- Thread starter Episkopos
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I see the passage you quoted similar to :
John 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse may happen to you.”
Hebr 12:4 In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
And the classic -
1John 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1John 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
The red is dominant.
The green is how we should walk and note what John adds : and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. Why does John say that? Isn't the answer obvious, that even if we walk in the light we can sin and I believe he (mainly) means those sins we are not aware of, they are automatically forgiven through the blood of Christ, provided we walk in the light, abide in Him.
In the next verse John immediately gives a strong warning about what he just said, the red, meaning, don't ever think you will be without sin and if you do you deceive yourself. And then the beautiful verse 9, whenever we become aware of sin, we confess and are forgiven and note what John adds, the blue : and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Cleaning us also from our unaware sins! Enabling us to pick up the walk in the light again. And note the strong relationship between and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
My point is full victory over sin and walking in holiness IS OVERCOMING AND WALKING AS CHRIST DID, in holiness over sin.
Rev 2:10 is a message to the church of Smyrna, but you forgot verse 11 which says:
11¶He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Rev 3:21 is a message to the church of Laodicea, what we are living in our time.
For context here is Rev. 3:14-21
"14¶And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22¶He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."
Jesus overcame death because the soul that sins it shall die (Ez. 18:4). Death could not hold Jesus because He NEVER sinned. Romans 6:23 confirms Ezekiel 18:4 when it says "the wages of sin is death". All of mankind have sinned, so we all shall see death (physical), HOWEVER, Rev. 2:11 should comfort us because: "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."
It is on us to overcome.
We have this gift of life from God. Today is the day of salvation. Be holy as God is holy.
Let us make our calling and election sure!
So again, do you understand WHAT we are to overcome?
Peace
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
I have one other thing to say this morning, to admit. I have been stuck at the end of Romans 7. No forward progress there, but some very good mornings and increased hope and comfort. I have no other thought but to continue waiting as I have never been disappointed by doing so, even despite my great impatience at times. (I am the one in a video of yours who does the thing you don’t recommend, Episkopos - when lost in the woods I wait for someone to come find me as I see no other way out.)
We who are called to be in Christ NEED that to save us. Otherwise we are lost. Others may not have that same need' Jesus didn't come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners.
Of course Jesus can give us complete victory. Making no provision for the flesh is our part, and empowering us to do so is what Jesus does.
We have to choose to walk in what He gives us, though there are also times when He gifts us with a Spirit walk above what we normally can do or choose. And then we can also enter that Spirit walk by faith. The "gifted walk" I found to be 24/7, walking in the Spirit by faith, I tend to run into triggers from the flesh, sometimes I ignore them, and sometimes I stumble, mking my walk incosistent.
My understanding is that Jesus uses all of these things to train us. Not that He just waves a wand and we are done, rather, He intends us to be involved also. Sometimes in immediate need I believe He does more noticeable works, deliverances, and the like. Otherwise we have a lifetime of training ahead of us. That's what I think.
Consider this thread, theads like this, and how those who claim this "higher walk" act towards others. Doesn't that tell you something?
Much love!
Let's focus on the red then. yes, when we walk in the flesh we have sin. However, if we are in the Spirit we do not sin. This is why we are told:
Ro 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
and
Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
The only way to BALANCE 1Jn 1:8 with the rest of the scriptures is to show that it is speaking of a carnal disobedient creature that is walking in the flesh. Why? Because when you walk in the spirit you do not fulfill sinful desires.
This is where "merismou" comes in:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder (
) of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.The Lord Jesus (Word of God) divides our carnal soul from the new creation(spirit) inside us. Most of us are in a spiritual blender and all mixed up, not knowing what is flesh and what is spirit. The Word divides each element and allows it to settle like oil in a jar of water. It makes the distinction between the two very easy to perceive. To the degree we have passed through this process is to the degree we will the truth clearly. Jesus' provision IS perfect and allows US to be perfect (telos or complete)in Him.
And so you take a verse of 1 John 2:6 (walk as Jesus did), you conclude that John means since Jesus was sinless, you can live a sinless life as well (full victory over sin), while in the previous chapter the apostle spoke against it. See my reply to Shep.
You, me and everybody else are not Christ, Jesus was the only one who was able to live sinless BECAUSE He was God in the flesh.
I already answered that, to say it in a different way -
Rom 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.
Rom 6:13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.
Rom 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
Rom 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
Amen to that.
However, Christ in you is your hope of glory. The More we live according to His Spirit, the less we will sin. It's all about consistency, and our faith. Do you truly not believe that Jesus is able to, and might, grant you to live without any known sin?
Much love!
But of course.
Yep, growing faith and sanctification as a never ending process till death.
Since you assume yes, do you have evidence from Scripture Jesus totally freed someone from sin?
Pity you ignored :
1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin
Why did John say this ???
Because we can walk in the light and still sin, unaware.
We are perfect because God sees us through the blood of Christ, that's our base. As long as we walk in the light, abide in Him and confess our sins when we become aware.
That's an interesting question!
The Scriptural teaching is that the most we can hope for is to not have any consciousness of committing sin, but not to think that we can know ourselves so well that we are fit judges of ourselves. We are not.
Something I've learned about God speaking to me, His Word has power. When Jesus told them, "go and sin no more", was this a recommendation? An instruction? Or was He speaking to them with power, so they would go and sin no more? Scripture is silent on that.
Does He enable people to live without conscious sin for whatever length of time He intends? Yes He does.
Much love!
Are you sure that this doesn't mean the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin, meaning, we don't sin?
Compare this to Paul's writing:
Galatians 5:16 EMTV
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall by no means fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Aren't these saying essentially the same thing?
Much love!
Rather, we've been reborn - recreated -
Ephesians 4:24 EMTV
and that you put on the new man which was created in the likeness of God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Much love!
You are missing my point, allow me to put it more sharply -
Do you believe you have passed a point in your walk with the Lord you don't have any unaware sins any longer ?
That is the point I am talking about all along in this thread of "victory over sin".
Be careful.
I've not missed your point. I suppose maybe you've not read my full posts.
This comes from:
1 Corinthians 4:3-5 KJV
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Paul addresses this directly, that we don't know ourselves well enough to declare we are sinless, rather, even if I "know nothing by myself", which is to say, even if I think I've not done wrong, that doesn't mean I'm right, Jesus will judge, because He and not me knows my heart.
To answer as plainly as I can, we can live without any consciousness of sin, but it's hubris to think we are actually sinless just because we can't think of any sins. People often live with blinders on, we have to become brutally honest with ourselves. If we can do that, we will have humility before the Lord.
Much love!
What I'm saying is not that God looks at us through Jesus colored glasses, it's more than that, He's actually made us people who are like Himself. No need to pretend. No selective vision. We are created anew, and like Him.
Much love!
It's a pity you ignored this:
Ro 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
When you lower the standard by claiming "we are only human and will always sin" you are making a provision for the flesh. It's much more honest to say "Jesus has made a perfect provision but I fail to walk in it because I am carnal and disobedient, have mercy on me Lord!"
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