Taken
Well-Known Member
No.
Rapture is NOT about where the Lord is Going…
The Rapture is about where a Glorified man is going… up off the Earth.
Do you agree, as you said … a rapture is being caught up and removed from the Earth?
Simple proof that the rapture occurs on the Last Day, which is a post tribulation rapture
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Rapture is NOT about where the Lord is Going…
The Rapture is about where a Glorified man is going… up off the Earth.
Do you agree, as you said … a rapture is being caught up and removed from the Earth?
Taken
Well-Known Member
The Light
Well-Known Member
There are two harvests.
The first harvest removes the Church from the earth before the great tribulation.
The second harvest removes the twelve tribes across the earth which are the seed of the woman Israel, from the earth before the wrath of God.
These two folds become one-fold which is the great multitude of Rev 7 and Rev 19.
Taken
Well-Known Member
You didn’t answer.
There are two harvests.
The first harvest removes the Church from the earth before the great tribulation.
The second harvest removes the twelve tribes across the earth which are the seed of the woman Israel, from the earth before the wrath of God.
These two folds become one-fold which is the great multitude of Rev 7 and Rev 19.
Do you agree, as you said … a rapture is being caught up and removed from the Earth?
The Light
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It doesn't. All it says is people want to die because they fear his wrath. It doesn't say anything about him actually being here yet, and the seals speak of future events so none of those things even happened when the seal was opened.
It doesn't anymore than Jesus describing the same events in Matt24 also did not mean they happened.
Because they signify actions that take place while the seals protect the knowledge of the future written on the scroll. Think of it as the difference between everything written in a movie script that has 7 seals on it, VS. the director making a noise that tells the actors to act.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Removing the Church from the Earth is the Rapture.
There are two harvests.
The first harvest removes the Church from the earth before the great tribulation.
That also would be a Rapture…
Where is that Scripture?
Do you think a Harvest and Rapture are the same thing?
The Light
Well-Known Member
Are you unable to conclude from the following verses that when the 6th seal is opened, the great tribulation is over, and the second coming occurs?
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
And are you not able to conclude that when the 6th seal is over, the 7th seal is opened which contains the trumpets and vials of God's wrath.
When the seal is actually opened the event will occur. These are prophecies. This is simple stuff.
It's just prophecy that will occur when the seals are actually opened.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Yes it is the 1st rapture. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have its eyes opened and God will turn His attention to the Jews.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel.
Daniel 9
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
I cannot explain why so many think that the great tribulation is about the Church. The Church will be gone before the great tribulation. The great tribulation is when the Jews turn back to God. Hence, the 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest.
This is the second rapture. It occurs at the 6th seal.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
This is the rapture of the 12 tribes across the earth. There are 144,000 first fruits of this rapture. If the first fruits are of the 12 tribes, the harvest is of the 12 tribes. When the dragon can't get to the woman, as she is in her place of protection, he goes after her seed which are the Jews that are all over the earth. Many Jews will have their blindness removed and realize that Jesus is the Messiah.
Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Here is another view of the rapture that occurs at the 6th seal.
Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
Yes of course a harvest is a rapture.
There are two raptures as the fig tree has two harvests.
The Feasts of God show a grain harvest.........barley and wheat and a fruit harvest.
Days of Noah.........Days of Lot.
The Lord Himself comes..................He sends His angels.
He comes at the trump of God...............He comes at the last trump which is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.
The dead are raised first................The dead and alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye.
Moses instructed to make two silver trumpets to gather the people.
The list goes on and on. There are two raptures.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Disagree.
One Rapture…of the Church, before Trib from Heaven.
Correct. ^
Nothing about a Rapture.
Yep Tribes gathered, on Earth.
No. Their Bodies Do not leave Earth.
The Dead shall be resurrected from dead body on Earth to Living Glorified body on Earth.
A believing remnant who never die during Trib., repopulate the Earth.
That is not a Rapture.
Harvest is not a Rapture.
Harvest is Dividing … With and Without God.
Rapture Involves Body’s being taken up off the Earth… only applies to those Christ Jesus SAVES.
Rest of Dead on Earth are Resurrected…
First they With God…(but we’re not saved by Christ) God Saves them.
Lastly Resurrected are they Against God.
No it isn’t. It’s a dividing, just like farming… with a sickle… keep the hay, burn the chaf.
You are mixing words. Not Scripture.
^ First Resurrection … not a Rapture. Their body does not leave Earth.
Not a harvest, they are already separated / divided.
Nope.
Right here is The Lords business raising they IN Christ…Raptured
1 Thes 4:
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
All others who believe before they die During the Trib… Just like Before Jesus Arrived….
God shall save them…
Resurrection… not a rapture.
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Are you unable to conclude from the following verses BOTH are describing things that aren't happening right then? Both are prophecies of the future.
The 7th seal does not contain the trumpets. The trumps are just mentioned in the same chp.
Wrong. Future events are shown to John but the events don't happen at that time. Did the same events in Matthew 24 happen at that same time Jesus described them in the 1st century? No.
My position is that they are prophecies. You think they are events fulfilling prophecy.
That's not what prophecies are.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Simple proof that the rapture occurs on the Last Day, which is a post tribulation rapture…
This statement confuses…
The Rapture
With
The First Resurrection…
The Rapture… Lifts Body’s UP OFF the Earth.
Before the Trib from Heaven.
The First Resurrection …Lifts Body’s UP From the Grave TO the Face of the Earth.
After the Trib from Heaven.
Not the Same Thing, Event.
Not the Same Timing.
Rapture is one event, two groups, one after another:
o. Jesus descends to a cloud and reaps (Revelation 14:14-16)
o. Dead in Christ rise first (1Thessalonians 4:16).
o. Then those in Christ who are left (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
o. Jesus descends to a cloud and reaps (Revelation 14:14-16)
o. Dead in Christ rise first (1Thessalonians 4:16).
o. Then those in Christ who are left (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Out of order, blending events.
The “Lord”…descends…
From.. (Heaven Above the Heaven(s)
To..The cloud(s).
Heaven(S]
1st Lower Above the Earth, clouds, air
2nd Mid stars, Angels estate.
3rd High, Saved Departed souls Rest.
* Heaven Above the Heaven(s) Gods Estate.
(Off limits to Angels and men)
Deut 10:14
Psalms 57:11
Where God IS And the Lord at Gods Rt hand.
1 Pet 3:22
Rapture.
1) Dead in Christ rise first (1Thessalonians 4:16).
2) Then those in Christ who are left (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
Yes.
Before Trib from Heaven.
*Glorified Bodies (church / bride)
*with Saved souls
*With born again spirit
Rise Up Off Earth TO Clouds, “Meet the Lord.”
* (Bride Weds Groom IN Fathers House/ Lower Heavens/ Clouds).
“Lamb of God” in Heaven Opens 7 Seals.
Rev 8:1…Seventh Seal Opened.
“Angels Of God” Blows Seven Trumps
Rev 11:15 Seventh Trump.
“Son of Man” appears on “A white Cloud”
All Men, SEE Him.
Rev 1-7
Mark 13:26
Luke 21:27
Acts 1:9-11
(All men Do / Will NOT SEE WHO is With Him)
* His Holy Spirit Angels.(thousands+)
* His Bride (in Glorified Bodies) (thousands+)
He ON the White Cloud, Shall Reap…the Earth…Separate…
Unbelievers ON Earth…
From believers ON Earth.
Remember… The difference Between:
A Believer…
AND
A “CONVERTED Believer”.
* A Believer believes under his own human power…AND under his own power, at any time …
Remain a believer OR STOP believing.
* A “converted Believer”, is kept Forever IN Belief, by, Through, of the POWER of God which dwell “IN” that man.
(and the Power OF God, IS Christ…
1 Cor 1:24
And why some man are called, IN Christ, and Christ IN them… but that does not apply TO “all believers”.)
So The Son of Man, reaps… Rev 14:16
And THEN…Who is ON Earth at that Time?
Believers?
Yes.
Satan?
Yes
Satan’s Demonic anti-Christ Angels?
Yes
Do “they” have Cunning powers to sway believing men AWAY from God?
Yes
And Thus begins Gods Wrath (vials)…Because “some” Believing men (Believing by their own power), ON Earth…who have survived… the tribulations of the Seals, Trumps, Woes…
WILL open their Ears in consideration of Satan’s Anti-Christ Voice…
AND begin Rejecting God…
“THEY”, (believing /unsaved)who harken to Satan’s voice…(following Him, Taking his mark of Allegiance)…
Begin Rejecting God…and begin experiencing Gods Wrath…
Step by step , increased as Each VIAL is poured out upon the Earth.
By the Seventh Vial poured out …
Rev 16:17 …
THEY (by their own power, who Rejected God and MADE their Allegiance to Satan… are Killed.
Their body’s dead, their soul Not Saved.
** Remembering …for a human man to Receive Soul salvation…
* His body Must First be “accounted in Gods Books of records Of Being Accounted DEAD.”
1 Cor 15:36
* A man, IN Christ, received his soul salvation AFTER his Word of Confessed Heartful Belief AND being bodily crucified With Jesus. Saved by the Lamb of God’ baptism.
* A man with Satan’s MARK of allegiance has forfeited, his option to have The Lord God to save his soul….
(Neither Saved by Christ before the Trib…or by God, during the Trib).
So:
before the 7 Seals (1 Thes 4:16-17)
The Lord redeems Christs Church / Bride
after the 7 Seals, (Rev 8:1)
after the 7 Trumps (Rev 11:15)
The Son of Man Seen (unseen with His angels & The Lords Bride… )appears on a white cloud. Reaps.
(Rev 14:14)
Satan busy Convincing men to Reject God, Take his MARK.
Some Do…
And experience Gods Wrath … seven Vials poured out, one by one, on Earth.
7th Vial… (Rev 16:17)
Satan and his angels attempt to Make War Against the Lamb.(Rev 17:14)
(Rev 20:2)A holy Angel directed to bind Satan.
Then ON Earth…
Only Living Human Believers..
AND…
Rev 19:16…
The KING of kings… appears.
Christ the lord Jesus, KING of Kings…
Claims His inheritance…
Rules His Kingdom 1,000 years
(With mortals still on Earth, in their nations/kingdoms)
Abraham’s promised land
And king Davids Throne (In Jerusalem)
(Rev 20:4)
…
And Brings with Him…
His holy Angel servants AND Bride AND holy transformed men…live and serve their KING.
…
And outside His Kingdom…
Believing (unsaved” mortal surviving remnant generationally repopulate the Earth…for 1,000 years…living in peace, prospering.[/I]
End of 1,000 Years.
Satan loosed, with his angels.
Reek havoc on last generation of mortals ON the Earth, AGAIN convincing them to Come Against Christ the KING Lord Jesus’ Kingdom…
Prophecy fulfilled…ALL Nations Will come Against Israel…
(Zach 12:3 - Zach 12:4)
Christ the KING exercises His Power… Calls Fire Down from Heaven And destroys all Mortals having come against His Kingdom.
(Rev 20:9)
THEN… is a new Heaven, earth prepared to Be revealed…
Glory to God,
That according TO His ORDER and WAY …
All shall be fulfilled, transformed and revealed.
Taken
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Spiritual Israelite
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And then right after that Jesus takes vengeance on unbelievers and destroys them (Revelation 14:18-20, 1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Thess 1:7-10).
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