The living and the dead

Stranger · Jul 30, 2018

I was just in the book of (Ecclesiastes) and saw a verse I had underlined in my Bible and in the margin I had wrote, 'powerful verse'. And it is. I want to give it and let others toss it around and see what you come up with as to it's meaning. I believe I do understand it, which is why I wrote in the margin what I did, but would like to hear your views.

The verse is (Ecc. 4:2). I will quote (1-2) for the context.

(Ecc. 4:1) "So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter."

(Ecc. 4:2) "Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive."

Stranger

quietthinker · Jul 30, 2018

Stranger said:
I was just in the book of (Ecclesiastes) and saw a verse I had underlined in my Bible and in the margin I had wrote, 'powerful verse'. And it is. I want to give it and let others toss it around and see what you come up with as to it's meaning. I believe I do understand it, which is why I wrote in the margin what I did, but would like to hear your views.

The verse is (Ecc. 4:2). I will quote (1-2) for the context.

(Ecc. 4:1) "So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter."

(Ecc. 4:2) "Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive."

Stranger

Life's lot is done. Nothing can be added or taken away. All oppressions have ceased. All glory is in the dust.

Stranger · Jul 30, 2018

quietthinker said:
Life's lot is done. Nothing can be added or taken away. All oppressions have ceased. All glory is in the dust.

That appears to be an interpretation of (4:1) I was looking for what some thought of (4:2).

What does (4:2) mean? Upon first reading one might think it says, it is better to be dead than alive. But, that is not all it is saying. Else it would have said only that. There is something else there.

Stranger

quietthinker · Jul 30, 2018

spill it!

7angels · Jul 30, 2018

to me verse 2 refers to us living in the past whether that means thinking of times past or thinking of those already dead instead of seeing what is just in front of you. this happens to people that lost loved ones especially.

God bless

Enoch111 · Jul 31, 2018

Stranger said:
(Ecc. 4:2) "Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive."

Since the entire theme of the book is the futility of life (without Christ) then the dead are better off in the writer's estimation, especially since the oppressions of life are in view. Of course praising the dead is mere hyperbole, since they would not know about that in any event.

Stranger · Jul 31, 2018

7angels said:
to me verse 2 refers to us living in the past whether that means thinking of times past or thinking of those already dead instead of seeing what is just in front of you. this happens to people that lost loved ones especially.

God bless

I believe it does speak to a past and future existence.

Stranger

Stranger · Jul 31, 2018

Enoch111 said:
Since the entire theme of the book is the futility of life (without Christ) then the dead are better off in the writer's estimation, especially since the oppressions of life are in view. Of course praising the dead is mere hyperbole, since they would not know about that in any event.

I guess my point is, why would he not just say, 'I praised the dead more than the living'.

I don't believe it to be a hyperbole.

Stranger

Pisteuo · Jul 31, 2018

Stranger said:
(Ecc. 4:2) "Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive."

"Already dead" refers to the physically dead. "Living which are not yet alive" refers to the physically living who are yet born again. Physically alive but Spiritually dead.

Stranger · Jul 31, 2018

(Ecc. 4:2) " Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive."

Who are the dead which are already dead? Who are the living which are yet alive?

I believe a distinction is being made here between the living and the dead and it does not just address those who are alive on the earth now and those who have died. The living and the dead speak to those who are of God and those not of God.

The phrase 'which are already dead' speaks to the dead to God who have walked this earth, who were dead even when they walked this earth, but have now died.

The phrase 'the living which are yet alive' speaks to those who are alive to God even before they have come into existence on this earth.

(Luke 9:60) "Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury the dead:..."

(Matt. 22:32) "...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

So, this doesn't change what Solomon is saying about the vanity and emptiness of life under the sun. But it certainly adds to the emptiness that he is experiencing. He praises the dead which are already dead more than the living who are yet to be alive. His emptiness is so great that he praises the dead to God who have died already, more than those alive to God who have yet to experience this life under the sun.

As I have said, if he was just contrasting those who are alive and those who have died, He would have just said I praised the dead more than the living.

Stranger

VictoryinJesus · Jul 31, 2018

Stranger said:
I was just in the book of (Ecclesiastes) and saw a verse I had underlined in my Bible and in the margin I had wrote, 'powerful verse'. And it is. I want to give it and let others toss it around and see what you come up with as to it's meaning. I believe I do understand it, which is why I wrote in the margin what I did, but would like to hear your views.

The verse is (Ecc. 4:2). I will quote (1-2) for the context.

(Ecc. 4:1) "So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter."

(Ecc. 4:2) "Wherefore I praised the dead which are already dead more than the living which are yet alive."

Stranger

Consider: 2 Corinthians 5:16-17
[16] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Also, Luke 24:3-5
[3] And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. [4] And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments: [5] And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

Luke 24:6-8
[6] He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, [7] Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. [8] And they remembered his words,

The living have a comforter.

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The living and the dead

Stranger

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quietthinker

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quietthinker

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7angels

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Enoch111

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