Christians And Self-Defence ?

Peter carried a sword and sliced off the high priests flunkeys ear with it, Jesus told him off but the fact remains he still allowed him to carry it in the first place..

what is the point of defending ourselves? if God wants us to get away from evil or harm we will. Jesus was always able to slip away somehow. But how much is our defense tied to our possessions? Are you attacking someone who is stealing from you, because no one can truly steal from you. Everything is God's. and in response to the sword thing, Jesus allows us to do whatever we want, we have free will, but not everything is beneficial.

(Daniel salach;5195)
what is the point of defending ourselves? if God wants us to get away from evil or harm we will. Jesus was always able to slip away somehow. But how much is our defense tied to our possessions? Are you attacking someone who is stealing from you, because no one can truly steal from you. Everything is God's. and in response to the sword thing, Jesus allows us to do whatever we want, we have free will, but not everything is beneficial.
Who's talking about self defense for possessions?Self defense is as the words imply is defense of oneself or a loved one, or even a stranger.I think pacifists are a breed that I totally don't understand. I think they come about because they've had life too good and never really suffered in this life.Read the parable of the Tares and the Wheat. Everyone gets where we're not suppose to harm the tares until the angels get rid of them at the end, but what else is this parable saying?The angels asked to get rid of them before the end. Why aren't they destroyed? Not because God is a pacifist but because the WHEAT may be harmed.It's all about the wheat.

People habitually carried a sword for deterrent purposes until the 1600's or so,even here in civilised England, not with violent intent but simply as a deterrent to muggers and troublemakers etc, and probably never had cause to use it.As the motto of a Royal Air Force squadron puts it - "An armed man is not attacked"We know Jesus and the disciples carried a money-bag in the charge of Judas (John 12:6), so no doubt some of them besides Peter carried swords for deterrent purposes..

I think we need to trust in the lord to help us defend ourselve and our families. To give us the better hand in a situation were we have an intruder in our house.I found this prayer, it was from the movie Saving Private Ryan - I found it quite interestingear Lord, I address thee with respect and fear, for I am a soldier sniper and ask but three things be granted to me in these times of horror and death wrought by man’s inhumanity to man, called war. First, dear Lord, I ask that I may be silent and unseen in my quest to perform my duty with perseverance, loyalty, honor and courage. Second, may I shoot straight and kill my much respected enemy quickly, with one shot so that he does not suffer and writhe in pain. Lastly dear Lord, I ask that you grant me the ability to be cunning and smart in my quest to be victorious over my enemy and adapt to whatever he may put before me by using the assets you have placed on this earth and the abilities instilled within me as a trained soldier sniper. I pray you will forgive me for filling the halls of your heavenly house with souls, for I am a true believer in Jesus the Christ, your son, his resurrection and his promise of forgiveness and life everlasting. Amen.It's a bit corny and over the top, but I think in it's essence, it shows a correct approach to things we must sometimes do. You need to involve Christ in every thing you do and trust He will resond according to the Spirit.

(ROS777;5202)
Who's talking about self defense for possessions?Self defense is as the words imply is defense of oneself or a loved one, or even a stranger.I think pacifists are a breed that I totally don't understand. I think they come about because they've had life too good and never really suffered in this life.Read the parable of the Tares and the Wheat. Everyone gets where we're not suppose to harm the tares until the angels get rid of them at the end, but what else is this parable saying?The angels asked to get rid of them before the end. Why aren't they destroyed? Not because God is a pacifist but because the WHEAT may be harmed.It's all about the wheat.
Ha way to Judge me ros, you dont know who i am or where ive been. just like i dont know where youve been. but im curious how many people you have seen killed in your life because of stupid violence. did Jesus carry s sword?, i dont see it in the Scriptures, did he fight back when he was being beaten? no. did any of the other Apostles ever fight back after they received the Holy Spirit? no. and they all wound up dying horrible deaths, excpet for John, possibly. They were all martyrd, but you dont see any of them fighting for their lives, look at paul, how many times was he beaten? but did he ever fight back? no. because they relied on the protection of the Lord and they knew that nobody could touch their souls. i dont care if you call me a peace loving hippie, i might be, i know i wouldn't sit around and let someone rape a woman, or beat up on a homeless man, and if it came to my wife or kid and someone was trying to hurt them in anyway, make a spot for me in prison.the fact is i used to do a lot of bad things before i was saved. but you dont know me ros, and i like how you just kind of tried to make it look like you were making a statement about pacifists and not me directly but thats cool. you must be a very knowlegable worldly experienced self defense expert on life who has seen someone get curb stomped because they owe somebody $20, i guess i am just not up to your level.

Daniel salach;5242]Ha way to Judge me ros, you dont know who i am or where ive been.
You're right, don't know you or where you've been...just like you don't know me and where I've been.
did Jesus carry s sword?,
Jesus may or not carried a sword; would think he didn't but the apostles did as Jesus said one was enough.They were beaten and murdered for the gospel. If a thug came into their house and tried to beat, rape or murder; I bet they would have defended themselves.
i dont care if you call me a peace loving hippie, i might be, i know i wouldn't sit around and let someone rape a woman, or beat up on a homeless man, and if it came to my wife or kid and someone was trying to hurt them in anyway, make a spot for me in prison.
You don't sound like a pacifist; you sound very much like someone who would defend his family.
the fact is i used to do a lot of bad things before i was saved. but you dont know me ros, and i like how you just kind of tried to make it look like you were making a statement about pacifists and not me directly but thats cool. you must be a very knowlegable worldly experienced self defense expert on life who has seen someone get curb stomped because they owe somebody $20, i guess i am just not up to your level.
No, I wouldn't curb stomp anyone that owes me $20Not trying to put you down at all.In fact, I think we misunderstand each other, afterall you would defend your family.

Question,why do people assume we as Christians should be wimps,did not Peter carry a sword with him,and heck he walked with Christ,now why do you supose Peter carried this sword,was it not for self defense?Turning the other cheek does not mean get hit and don't hit back,some of you sound like those who are against the death penalty,(which by the way is very much Biblical)who stand outside of the prisons trying to save the person from death,when God's Word clearly states that the murderer be put to death,and please note that there is a difference between killing someone and mudering them.As I said murderes are required by God to be executed.Let me know if you want the verse,will be more than happy to give it to yasee this study think it will helphttp://biblestudysite.com/life.htm

Personally I thought long and hard and prayed about taking up some form of self defence. i studied Akido when I was a little younger and found it great from a keep fit point of view but it is also just defence not attack so I could se no problem with it interfering with my walk with god.Just recently along with my renewed walk with god and keyboard playing came the age old do I go and learn some form of defence again as I live in a not too nice corner of a council estate and it can get a little rough at times.After praying and reading Gods word I got the answer that it was ok so long as I used it only for defence.So I went out reaserched where to go and I now go twicw weekley to classes in wing chun kung fu now ok this is more of an attack disipline but it teaches minimal force to solve any issues that arise ie a series of blocks to lead to a knockdown. I feel that the disipline iit teaches is a good thing as it could be too easy to get over excited on adrenaline if you are not trained and cause some serious damage rather than just doing what is nessassary and getting out of there.I have not yet had to call any of this into practice yet and I pray I never will but at the end of the day it is a good workout on the cheap and the reaxation in the shoulders it teaches for the punches is great for my piano posture.tris

Jesus also told Peter to put his sword back in it's sheath when he tried to use it. Pacifists love to use this passage but in the context it was commanded is not so. It was his mission to be captured and for Peter to shed blood in order to attempt to prevent what was meant to be would have meant that blood would have been shed in vain.There are those who would not fight back no matter what and for the true pacifists, I have deep respect. Too many so called pacifists are quick to impose pacifism upon others while they themselves have yet to prove how they would react in the same situation. What you end up with is someone who runs interference for the offender calling upon victims not to fight back while showereing the offender with forgivness.Contrary to what you might think of me, I am far from being a pasifist. Quite to the contrary, it is because of by confidence with my weapons that I do not see the need for "Pre emtive action" I feel confident in my ability to repel an attack if and when it happens so unless a person is actually shooting at me, he is no my enemy. Even if we, however unlikely end up with some guy dressed like Lawrence of Arabia patroling the streets of America forcing us all to bow towards Mecca I will have a .45 caliber or .308 caliber rebuttal to his demand. So, until a Muslim is actually trying to force me to bow towards Mecca, he is not my enemy and I refuse to declare him as such. Even if he spouts his jihad rehtoric, my confidence in my ability only makes me laugh and tell him "You are welcome to try!" Until then I am a warrior who refuses to draw his sword.

BernieQuote"Jesus also told Peter to put his sword back in it's sheath when he tried to use it."ReplyI think you missed my point,which is,why did Peter have a sword in the first place,I say it was for protection,not saying that he just went around killing people,but Im pretty sure they walked in and around some dangerous situations,to the point that Peter felt he needed a sword.

No I did not. I agree that They were comanded to carry swords and if they didn't have one, to sell their cloak and buy one. A sword is a lethal weapon so we can assume that force up to the taking of a life was / is authorised when the situation warrants it. When Jesus rebuked Peter, it was not to promote / enforce pacifism but to simply state that this was not the time to fight.

Well I've missed all the previous posts on this, so I'm kind of 'jumping in' here with my twopence worth having got the gist of the topic from reading many of your comments.Firstly, I believe that Jesus reprimanded his disciple for using his sword against the soldier because at that point in time, prophesy was on the verge of being fulfilled. It was 'the time for Jesus to lay down his life', so defending himself, or his disciples defending him, was not meant to be. I do wonder though, if someone had tried to kill Jesus at some time 'before the allotted time', would Jesus still have rebuked his disciples for trying to 'defend' him, bearing in mind that if he were killed before his allotted time, the whole purpose of his coming to earth would have gone down the drain.Another point I'd like to raise here is on this idea of allowing someone to rape and murder etc without defending oneself or others. Firstly, lets face it, it's simply human nature to try to protect/defend yourself/others and I think that even the most devout Christian would find it very difficult to restrain themself from doing so. We are also meant to 'help each other'. I can't believe that we are meant to pass by someone who is being attacked and do nothing to try to help them.I wonder whether what we have here is a more a question of 'retaliation' rather than 'defence'. We are not meant to 'retaliate' with the 'eye for an eye' reaction. I can't help feeling that the 'stand there and let them do whatever they want' approach would serve only to give the message to certain people that you can do what you please and get away with it. We would end up with muggings, rapes and murders etc on such a scale that nobody would dare step outside their door and they wouldn't even be safe behind it! Of course, there is the question too of 'how' you defend yourself/others.An all out attack on someone where you beat them to within an inch of their life, even when they've 'surrendered' is an over reaction that we can't justify, largely because it turns 'defence' into 'attack'. The police and others use the term 'reasonable force', though I've yet to discover their exact 'definition' of this. One of the things we have to take into account though is that, when we are threatened, fear/panic can take over and control our response. How this is viewed by the courts seems to vary. How it is viewed by God.......well?I guess that brings us full circle.

Full circle? Not at all! You have brought us to the very conclusions that most here have been reaching.