CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
That was a sign to Jews who demanded signs.
What about the others that receive the Holy Spirit without tongues?
The Gift of Tongues: its General Availability, Purpose, and Power
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That was a sign to Jews who demanded signs.
What about the others that receive the Holy Spirit without tongues?
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Not all tongue talking is of God. To that I would agree.
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If someone possesses the fruit of the Spirit I would agree. With many, I find myself thinking to inform them that their ego is not the unction of God.
When we had a plating department in our facility I worked under a chemist. This chemist was very smart and very good at math. When he laid out equations he did so in very neat handwriting and there would be much activity as he turned the results of an analysis into an addition. I would take his calculations and put them in the form of visual basic functions and sub procedures.
Of all the years I worked with this man I had one opportunity to witness to him. I made my presentation while he was analyzing adhesion under a microscope in which you could hear the sounds... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! After my presentation he just continued to look under the microscope as if ignored everything I said so I just continued in my work. Then... The scratch scratch, scratching stopped! And he speaks!
"You know what I think it is?" He says while continuing to look under the microscope... "I think it is arrogance!"
And then, without taking his eyes off the microscope, he continues his work... Scratch, scratch, scratch! Scratch scratch, scratch! I did not reply but went about my work. Inside I feared he was right. In many cases religion can inhabit too much personal ego.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
My point is others received the Holy Spirit without any mention of tongues.
Speaking in tongues is not present in the Bible as an ongoing sign of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. It is not necessary.
I do not speak in tongues but I most assuredly have gifts of the Holy Spirit and am born-again.
Paul did call it the least of the gifts.
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Two points....
1. The Holy Spirit is not flesh
2. The Holy Spirit is not ego
If people are of the flesh and the ego I would recommend them seeking the blessing of the Holy Spirit. In which, if they have been properly sanctified, should not be that far away.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I agree.
But that is not an argument for not speaking in tongues.
I worked with one guy that you are was a Christian. He said you the Bible was 100% correct and God existed. But he would never bow to him because he would rather burn for eternity then submit to anyone.
Another one I was trying to get out of Catholicism had serious conversations with me and decided to leave. One day he fell and broke his arm, the bone piercing his skin. He cried out to God that you and God did, instantly.
Back in 1970 in Scotland my chest started severely hurting. I went to the clinic, he x-rayed me and told me I had a calcified part of my long.
I walked out straight across the a big green area praying.
Suddenly I started coughing and so my handful of calcified nodules. I immediately went back to clinic, was re-x-rayed, and the doctor came to me looking like he was going to collapse. You said I now have the healthiest lungs he had ever seen. To this day is that is still true.
My point is don't demand tongues as proof of faith was strong walk with God.
I have seen too much and experience too much that others have not to ever doubt God and look to myself and not God.
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I worked with three ladies in my factory making samples. These ladies were all Baptist, cheerful, decent, and I would not doubt if they were to tell me they were Spirit filled. Especially as I don't see the otherwise in their character. And this was also true of the old people in the Baptist church I was brought up in. They continued in the way they were brought up in.
I would question, with many these days, Pentecostal or no, their so-called spirituality. Especially as they are so carnally minded.
I would question, with many these days, Pentecostal or no, their so-called spirituality. Especially as they are so carnally minded.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Well, exactly; but the believer need to keep 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2).
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Yes. Salvation was only the starting point of sanctification and service.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Yes, because unless you hadn't God would have never known what you meant. Thanks for helping him out, he needs it once in a while.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Everyone on this site speaks in a tongue = known language. I'll take a wild guess and say that for the majority that tongue is English.
I have already presented scripture saying the gifts came only through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Scripture does not support any other means. You need to realize this and accept that Pentecostalism is unscriptural in their view of the gifts today.
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Ephesians 4:12-13
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Ministry offices as well as gifts are to mature the saints. Basically they are for the children for growth. A mature saint needs neither, they have learned Christ, the revelation of the indwelling Christ is all a believer needs in this life. To live, to express Him spontaneously. Religion will always have a problem with those that have matured in God, they cannot control them, they are led by the Spirit. Maturity does not need someone to say the world needs saved, it is their nature to see the world and respond to the lost dieing hungry hurting soul, and the spiritually dead. You don't work this up, it doesn't take a message to motivate, it is as natural as breathing, Christ is alive in every born again believer, but we must see him. The distraction of the day is self, my needs my wants, me working out life. That is a lie and if we buy into that deception, life cannot be worked out, there is only one way, one life, Christ who is in you from the moment you believed.
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Ministry offices as well as gifts are to mature the saints. Basically they are for the children for growth. A mature saint needs neither, they have learned Christ, the revelation of the indwelling Christ is all a believer needs in this life. To live, to express Him spontaneously. Religion will always have a problem with those that have matured in God, they cannot control them, they are led by the Spirit. Maturity does not need someone to say the world needs saved, it is their nature to see the world and respond to the lost dieing hungry hurting soul, and the spiritually dead. You don't work this up, it doesn't take a message to motivate, it is as natural as breathing, Christ is alive in every born again believer, but we must see him. The distraction of the day is self, my needs my wants, me working out life. That is a lie and if we buy into that deception, life cannot be worked out, there is only one way, one life, Christ who is in you from the moment you believed.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
What I get from this is they received the Holy Ghost (Born again) and went out to spread the word in different languages. "And Prophesied" proves my understanding. After all Tongues is the ability to speak languages. Cloven tongues received at Pentecost was not the same. Tongues are for a sign to the unbeliever to help them believe. If one could witness to many cultures of different languages that would be a good sign of the gift of tongues/languages. I can not find scripture to back up the claim its a special prayer language. Glowing heads and shouting gibberish to me would be a sign of satan taking over. I'd be running away from that deception pretty quick.
What I get from this is they received the Holy Ghost (Born again) and went out to spread the word in different languages. "And Prophesied" proves my understanding. After all Tongues is the ability to speak languages. Cloven tongues received at Pentecost was not the same. Tongues are for a sign to the unbeliever to help them believe. If one could witness to many cultures of different languages that would be a good sign of the gift of tongues/languages. I can not find scripture to back up the claim its a special prayer language. Glowing heads and shouting gibberish to me would be a sign of satan taking over. I'd be running away from that deception pretty quick.
The problem with this is tongues were never a human language. They were understood as human language by those who could interpret.
“For the person who speaks in another language [tongue] is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 14:2)
Jeff Wiebe
Member
Yes God understands all languages. “For the person who speaks in another language [tongue] is not speaking to men but to God, since no one understands him; however, he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.” (1 Corinthians 14:2) The Spirit referred to is our Spirit. If you speak a language not known in the Church only God understands and will have no benefit to others in the Church. Basically he is saying only you will understand so if you don't have an interpreter stay silent. Paul is speaking to the Church of Corinth here.
Jeff Wiebe
Member
Yup, I agree. Tongues is languages. Tongues at Pentecost was not the same as described in Corinthians but many think its the same. That's where todays gibberish comes from, misunderstanding. And satan loves to use it.
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