Can you know for sure?

CharismaticLady · Aug 13, 2020

Ezra said:
so are you saying we cant have full assurance ?

and @historyb

Yes, we can have assurance.

1 John 3:18-24 (minus 20)

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.... 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Enoch111 · Aug 13, 2020

amadeus said:
Sorry that you either you disagree and/or don't understand.

What I understand is that passage muddies the waters, when the title of the thread is "Can you know for sure?"

friend of · Aug 13, 2020

I think we can know for sure yes that is the point of faith entirely

LC627 · Aug 14, 2020

Yes. To believe otherwise is to call God a liar.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

It's not by our works,we are saved by grace. One can have assurance of their salvation. Examine your life, have you become a new creation? Does the Holy Spirit convict you? Do you experience the discipline of God? Do you desire to obey God and pursue a holy life?

It's pretty clear to a believer that they have been re-born by the evidence / work of the Holy Spirit in their life & desires. One can tell the difference from night to day, the change from being dead in sin to alive in Christ.

charity · Aug 14, 2020

marks said:
Is it possible to know for certain that you know God? That you've received eternal life?

Can you really know?

1 John 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Much love!

'For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Colossians 3:3-4)

Hello @marks,

Yes, like Abraham of old who believed God and it was counted unto Him for righteousness, so we who believe the gospel of God concerning His Son, have life through His Name. We simply believe God, Whom we know to be faithful, to keep His promises: for we walk by faith and not by sight.

Our life is hid with Christ in God
Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ezra · Aug 14, 2020

CharismaticLady said:
and @historyb

Yes, we can have assurance.

1 John 3:18-24 (minus 20)

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.... 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

yes and i am glad you posted that scripture.it seems some are not sure

Ezra · Aug 14, 2020

Enoch111 said:
What I understand is that passage muddies the waters, when the title of the thread is "Can you know for sure?"

then post what you understand..

Taken · Aug 14, 2020

marks said:
Is it possible to know for certain that you know God? That you've received eternal life?

Can you really know?

Yes, I can Really know....regarding me.
No, You can Not Really know...regarding me.

1 Cor 2:
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

Glory to God,
Taken

charity · Aug 14, 2020

'Behold, God is my salvation;
I will trust, and not be afraid:
for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song;
He also is become my salvation.'
(Isaiah 12:2)

CadyandZoe · Aug 14, 2020

marks said:
Is it possible to know for certain that you know God? That you've received eternal life?

Can you really know?

1 John 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Much love!

John's epistle goes a long way to help us know if we have the right gospel, which is his point. But what we really want to know is this. We know that Jesus saves; but we want to know "does Jesus intend to save me?" Can we say that salvation belongs to a particular person, that is, does it belong to me indeed?

Peter, Paul, and James give us the answer. Here is Peter's answer.

1 Peter 1:6-8
In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory.

Assurance comes from testing and trials.

amadeus · Aug 14, 2020

Ezra said:
i am just trying to understand both sides i read all views but yes i figured you could answer the ?

marks said:
Is it possible to know for certain that you know God? That you've received eternal life?
Can you really know?

1 John 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Much love!

amadeus said:
"Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." Heb 10:22

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

When we actually believe, which may not be when we mouth the words, 'I believe on the name of the Son of the God' then we can/may know the we have eternal life. As we see with the man who wanted healing for his child, God can help us. The man said, "help thou my unbelief" [Mark 9:24] and Jesus healed the child. Can a person go backwards from believing once he has started to believe? I would say yes and I cited the verses above in Matthew 12 to show what sometimes happens to people. He was clean, but then he failed to fill himself with the 'good' things of God and he then slid back to a worse place than where he had been before being cleaned.

Consider what Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of adultery here:

"When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.' John 8:10-11
He effectively forgave her sins. She was clean, but then sending her on her way he warned her: "sin no more". Are we today in a better place than that woman who actually saw the man Jesus in the flesh? No, and God is no respecter of persons. If the woman had sinned her sin of adultery again and were caught, she would have been stoned to death. Our punishment today may not be stoning, but it is there nonetheless even after our sins have been forgiven. God is not respecter of persons. God has never changed.

At this moment walking with God in the Spirit, we may indeed be "saved", but like the man who was clean, if we fail to fill the empty space with good things, it will be refilled with evil and our salvation will be gone.

Does this clarify where I stand?

amadeus · Aug 14, 2020

Enoch111 said:
What I understand is that passage muddies the waters, when the title of the thread is "Can you know for sure?"

I thought that my answer spoke for me where I stood with regard to the OP. I clarified for @Ezra in post #31
My simple answer is, yes, but , no!

Pearl · Aug 14, 2020

marks said:
What then does this mean to you?

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If we cannot know whether we have eternal life?

Much love!

We are already living in the eternal.

marks · Aug 14, 2020

Pearl said:
We are already living in the eternal.

And that life is different than the temporal. And we can tell the difference.

We have a "before" and "after" testimony. I was a profligate sinner with no regard for sin or God. Now I am different, and I don't want sin, and I do want God. I was alone. Now I'm not.

Much love!

marks · Aug 14, 2020

charity said:
'For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Colossians 3:3-4)

Hello @marks,

Yes, like Abraham of old who believed God and it was counted unto Him for righteousness, so we who believe the gospel of God concerning His Son, have life through His Name. We simply believe God, Whom we know to be faithful, to keep His promises: for we walk by faith and not by sight.

Our life is hid with Christ in God
Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

That was the passage that initially challenged me in regard to this. "Ye shall also appear with Him in glory." It's prophecy. You will. If you have died, and been raised in Him.

So I am as certain in my hope as I am about my rebirth.

Much love!

marks · Aug 14, 2020

LC627 said:
Yes. To believe otherwise is to call God a liar.

Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

I hear "presume", and "presumption" bandied about on this topic, and I have to ask . . . which is the greater presumption?

To believe that God means for me to know, or to declare that it cannot be?

Much love!

marks · Aug 14, 2020

charity said:
We simply believe God, Whom we know to be faithful, to keep His promises: for we walk by faith and not by sight.

We can have as much confidence in our salvation as we have in God's nature to keep His Word.

Much love!

marks · Aug 14, 2020

charity said:
We simply believe God, Whom we know to be faithful, to keep His promises: for we walk by faith and not by sight.

We can have as much confidence in our salvation as we have in God's nature to keep His Word.

Much love!

Taken said:
Yes, I can Really know....regarding me.
No, You can Not Really know...regarding me.

1 Cor 2:
[11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?

Glory to God,
Taken

I think so also.

Much love!

marks · Aug 14, 2020

CadyandZoe said:
John's epistle goes a long way to help us know if we have the right gospel, which is his point. But what we really want to know is this. We know that Jesus saves; but we want to know "does Jesus intend to save me?" Can we say that salvation belongs to a particular person, that is, does it belong to me indeed?

Peter, Paul, and James give us the answer. Here is Peter's answer.

1 Peter 1:6-8
In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ; and though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory.

Assurance comes from testing and trials.

Just so!

Not like in the parable of the sower, the seed that falls on rocky soil, sprouts quickly, but no root, so when persecution comes, it's shown for what it is.

In Romans 5, tribulation produces patience, patience experience, and experience hope. And hope does not disappoint!

Much love!

Grailhunter · Aug 14, 2020

Do you know for sure you are saved?

Is saved a thought?

It would do you all good to do a deep study on what Faith is.
What is it's source?
What does it do?
Do a comparison of Faith in the OT and in the NT.
What is the difference?
What did Christ say about Faith.
This will answer your questions.

Can you know for sure?

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