The bride of Christ

amadeus · Dec 5, 2020

Ziggy said:
Dan fell

Amo 8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

The sin of Samaria and the manner of Beersheba:

This just one example:
2Ki 1:2 And Ahaziah fell down through a lattice in his upper chamber that was in Samaria, H8111 and was sick: and he sent messengers, and said unto them, Go, enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron whether I shall recover of this disease.

The Bible says Satan tempted David to number the tribes of Israel. And then God rebuked him for not trusting him.
so Beersheba is a place.. from Dan to Beersheba:

2Sa 24:2 For the king said to Joab the captain of the host, which was with him, Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people, that I may know the number of the people.

It's idolatry that brought Dan down.

Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Jdg 5:17 Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches.

Jdg 18:30 And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, he and his sons were priests to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land.

Many years ago I asked a very knowledgeable and wise pastor [never my pastor] about the tribe of Dan and he immediately understood my question but in his wisdom he also readily admitted his lack of knowledge about it. I spent a lot of time on it myself several years ago, but there are still many blank spots and the overall picture is quite blurry to me. Thanks for your input.

Ziggy · Dec 5, 2020

amadeus said:
Many years ago I asked a very knowledgeable and wise pastor [never my pastor] about the tribe of Dan and he immediately understood my question but in his wisdom he also readily admitted his lack of knowledge about it. I spent a lot of time on it myself several years ago, but there are still many blank spots and the overall picture is quite blurry to me. Thanks for your input.

The course of this world

Post 59, or the last on page 3.
I was looking at the tribes from the old and in Revelation, comparing tribe by tribe.
Who was missing. It's kind of sloppy as I was just kind of rambling.
That was Nov 28th about a week ago
Hugs

amadeus · Dec 5, 2020

Ziggy said:
The course of this world

Post 59, or the last on page 3.
I was looking at the tribes from the old and in Revelation, comparing tribe by tribe.
Who was missing. It's kind of sloppy as I was just kind of rambling.
That was Nov 28th about a week ago
Hugs

We can cover the whole thing... or so we believe... and yet miss something essential. I am careful with that word, essential, as some will quickly want to define positively what is essential to a Christian, to a believe in God and His Son. This is one of those ATs [Absolute Truths] that may have resulted in the multitudes of church groups [denominations] among 'true' believers today. My good friend, @bbyrd009 was always getting onto people here about their ATs, and quite often they could not understand him at all. Some said he was not really a Christian at all, but I have to disagree with them on that. No lengthy discussions on the open forum about him, but he has been banned/suspended one more time. If we get suspended here, where else can we go?

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." John 6:66-68

BarneyFife · Dec 5, 2020

amadeus said:
That alone being that half of those virgins were unprepared and therefore missed him when he knocked contains our answer... if we can understand it.

Sorry to put you on the spot, but:
Answer to what, exactly, and can you explain it to those of us who may or may not understand it?

BarneyFife · Dec 5, 2020

Ziggy said:
Dan fell

Amo 8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

The sin of Samaria and the manner of Beersheba:

This just one example:
2Ki 1:2 And Ahaziah fell down through a lattice in his upper chamber that was in Samaria, H8111 and was sick: and he sent messengers, and said unto them, Go, enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron whether I shall recover of this disease.

The Bible says Satan tempted David to number the tribes of Israel. And then God rebuked him for not trusting him.
so Beersheba is a place.. from Dan to Beersheba:

2Sa 24:2 For the king said to Joab the captain of the host, which was with him, Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people, that I may know the number of the people.

It's idolatry that brought Dan down.

Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Jdg 5:17 Gilead abode beyond Jordan: and why did Dan remain in ships? Asher continued on the sea shore, and abode in his breaches.

Jdg 18:30 And the children of Dan set up the graven image: and Jonathan, the son of Gershom, the son of Manasseh, he and his sons were priests to the tribe of Dan until the day of the captivity of the land.

Just as Judas (one of twelve) made an idol of money.

amadeus · Dec 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. (Matthew 25:1)

amadeus said:
That alone being that half of those virgins were unprepared and therefore missed him when he knocked contains our answer... if we can understand it.

BarnyFife said:
Sorry to put you on the spot, but:
Answer to what, exactly, and can you explain it to those of us who may or may not understand it?

Our answer as to what the Bride of Christ is or of whom does the Bride of Christ consist and of how it is different, if it is, from the Body of Christ. I have discussed the Bride versus the Body on this forum previously. I have had ideas and received ideas from others
but still I have no precisely unquestionably correct answer for you. I believe that the Bride is within the Body. They are not the same, but that is my personal belief. I do not insist on it for anyone else. This perhaps takes us back to the question of what are ATs [Absolute Truths] that everyone should embrace. Here are few things to consider...

The following verse explains who becomes a "son of God":
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

The following verse make a distinction between the "friend" of the bridegroom and the "bride":
"He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled." John 3:29

Here in this verse we see that Jesus is the head of the Body, the Church:
"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18

Rather than being the entire Body of Christ, is not the Bride only a special part taken out to be one with the Bridegroom?

Then should not the Church, the Body of Christ, include, friends and guests as well as the Bride?

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son," Matt 22:2

"So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests." Matt 22:10

BarneyFife · Dec 5, 2020

amadeus said:
Our answer as to what the Bride of Christ is or of whom does the Bride of Christ consist and of how it is different, if it is, from the Body of Christ. I have discussed the Bride versus the Body on this forum previously. I have had ideas and received ideas from others
but still I have no precisely unquestionably correct answer for you. I believe that the Bride is within the Body. They are not the same, but that is my personal belief. I do not insist on it for anyone else. This perhaps takes us back to the question of what are ATs [Absolute Truths] that everyone should embrace. Here are few things to consider...

The following verse explains who becomes a "son of God":
"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Rom 8:14

The following verse make a distinction between the "friend" of the bridegroom and the "bride":
"He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled." John 3:29

Here in this verse we see that Jesus is the head of the Body, the Church:
"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence." Col 1:18

Rather than being the entire Body of Christ, is not the Bride only a special part taken out to be one with the Bridegroom?

Then should not the Church, the Body of Christ, include, friends and guests as well as the Bride?

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son," Matt 22:2

"So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests." Matt 22:10

Comes pretty close to being "precisely unquestionably correct," I'd say. Would you say the unprepared virgins are like the wedding guests who had not the provided garment upon them?

amadeus · Dec 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Comes pretty close to being "precisely unquestionably correct," I'd say. Would you say the unprepared virgins are like the wedding guests who had not the provided garment upon them?

Perhaps or perhaps they have made it to being part of the Body, but were not quite up to what God required for the Bride! Too little too late?

"Thou art beautiful, O my love, as Tirzah, comely as Jerusalem, terrible as an army with banners.
Turn away thine eyes from me, for they have overcome me: thy hair is as a flock of goats that appear from Gilead.
Thy teeth are as a flock of sheep which go up from the washing, whereof every one beareth twins, and there is not one barren among them.
As a piece of a pomegranate are thy temples within thy locks.
There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:4-9

When we understand precisely all that God was describing in those verses through Solomon [and others in scripture], then we will know precisely what the Bride and what it is not. Some people certainly, I believe, will be saved to live always with God, but not as part of the Bride.

BarneyFife · Dec 5, 2020

amadeus said:
Perhaps or perhaps they have made it to being part of the Body, but were not quite up to what God required for the Bride! Too little too late?

"Thou art beautiful, O my love, as Tirzah, comely as Jerusalem, terrible as an army with banners.
Turn away thine eyes from me, for they have overcome me: thy hair is as a flock of goats that appear from Gilead.
Thy teeth are as a flock of sheep which go up from the washing, whereof every one beareth twins, and there is not one barren among them.
As a piece of a pomegranate are thy temples within thy locks.
There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:4-9

When we understand precisely all that God was describing in those verses through Solomon [and others in scripture], then we will know precisely what the Bride and what it is not. Some people certainly, I believe, will be saved to live always with God, but not as part of the Bride.

I don't mean to be unduly flattering, but you have a wonderful gift of thoughtfully applying the Old Testament to various topics. I just love it.

I once heard a very good sermon/talk about weak Christians and how God loves them and desires their salvation just as much as he does for the stronger ones. After all, it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. We can't justly take any credit for any strength of which we might have been granted stewardship.

Ziggy · Dec 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Just as Judas (one of twelve) made an idol of money.

Yeah but I see it kind of different... because I am..

Judas did exactly what was written of him in order for God's will to be done.
He also did what David wrote in the Psalms:

Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

And Jesus himself hung on a cross removing the curse of Judas.

Ah but the ones sitting in the upper chamber, they were so much better.
Peter denied him 3 times, Thomas doubted, and James and John coveted the best seats on the right and left hand in the kingdom.
Maybe it was Nathaniel that ran away naked.. He was a good Israelite but he didn't know about Nazareth in the prophecies.
Jhn 1:46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.

I'm sure each one had some flaws.
But Judas fulfilled what was written about him in order for everything that followed to fall into place.
It was God's will. And Judas obeyed.

There is none perfect no not one.
Can you imagine knowing that it was you who would have to be the betrayer??

How many times did they confirm it was Judas that would betray him? many

Luk 22:47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
Luk 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?

yea:
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Jesus calls Peter Satan. Tells Peter Satan wants to sift him as wheat.
And then Peter says that Satan jumped from him to Judas..
I find that interesting..

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
Act 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

You see what Peter said ?? Verse 18 read it good.
Who baught the field?

Mat 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Mat 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Mat 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
Mat 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.

They gave Judas the silver, he threw it back at them, they were guilty of the blood money and they blame Judas.

Where is bishoprick in the psalms??

How about this one:
Psa 69:25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.
or
Psa 109:15 Let them be before the LORD continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.

You want to talk about twisting scripture...
I'm just saying..

Peter Peter Pumpkn eater,
had a wife and couldn't keep her

No I'm not picking on Peter.
We already know he had issues. Still does.
Hugs

amadeus · Dec 5, 2020

BarnyFife said:
I don't mean to be unduly flattering, but you have a wonderful gift of thoughtfully applying the Old Testament to various topics. I just love it.

I once heard a very good sermon/talk about weak Christians and how God loves them and desires their salvation just as much as he does for the stronger ones. After all, it is God who works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure. We can't justly take any credit for any strength of which we might have been granted stewardship.

God has given me something, a gift, and any glory for it belongs to Him. What I do is obey... sometimes... but sometimes I have been disobedient. He's not finished with me yet! Praise His name!

VictoryinJesus · Dec 5, 2020

@amadeus concerning the ten virgins which all slept consider Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

amadeus said:
The following verse make a distinction between the "friend" of the bridegroom and the "bride":
"He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled." John 3:29

I’ve always heard in Revelation 3:20 he stands without and knocks at the door. Tried to find he stands without but haven’t yet? Do you know where the stands without and knocks and if anyone will open he will come in originate from? A verse? A question I’ve had lately is why does he stand without? was not the foolish virgins the ones standing without knocking and the door was shut? the Lord within, those without knocking?

A few thoughts. You quoted "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled." John 3:29

Behold (Look)
I stand at the door
and knock (to strike)
If anyone hears My voice
and opens the door
I will come in to him
And will dine with him, and he with Me. Revelation 3:20

Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. [2] Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; [3] Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: [4] That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.(as I ought to speak to who?) [5] Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. [6] Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
Colossians 4:1-6

charity · Dec 6, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
thank you for the link. I’ve started reading but I haven’t had the time yet, to sit down and really absorb what is being said. My hope is to devote the weekend to giving it a fair chance. I’ve never heard of the different spheres of blessing. Suspect I’ll disagree at least in some areas. But I really want to have some perspective of your view and how you see it. When we talk there is always a disconnect and maybe giving another perspective a chance, will at least help with how you and I can communicate better. I don’t know. Hopefully it will click...not making any promises.

Hi @VictoryinJesus

I can relate to the disconnect. We are all so different aren't we? Our backgrounds and influences play their part in that perhaps. I am used to the works of the man who wrote the booklet in the link, but you are not. It was written many years ago now, and so the style and means of expression will reflect that. It considers what Scripture says concerning the companies figured by, 'The Bride' and 'The Body,' and also 'the Wife' .

The fact that there are three spheres of blessing in the age to come is not difficult really, for 'the earth' and 'far above all' are two, the third being the new Jerusalem which will come down out of heaven to the earth, which is 'The Bride of the Lamb.'

If reading this booklet is not for you, ViJ, that's no problem. I just referred to it in case it may be of help. The writer himself makes a point of insisting that his readers bring all that he writes to the word of God for confirmation, for we are all liable to make mistakes.

Take care, and keep praising God.
For He alone is faithful and true.
Your sister in Christ.
Chris

charity · Dec 6, 2020

BarnyFife said:
What I asked for was Scripture evidence for the general statement that God does not "mix His metaphors." If we're just telling each other to search for themselves then I guess there's no basis for discussion except for the opinions of man.

With respect, I have no knowledge of this concept from the Bible. It sounds like dispensationalism, to which I do not subscribe at all. God saves every sinner the same way--by the blood of Christ and His ministry in the temple (sanctuary) of Heaven (Revelation 11:19).

Hello @BarnyFife,

i am a dispensationalist, Barney, but that has nothing to do with the truth of the statement I made that you require proof of. Proof comes by looking at the usage of each figure. In this case, 'The Bride' and 'The Body', and all that relates to either within the context in which they come. The fact that they are two separate companies becomes obvious. References can be found by consulting a concordance, and the context of each reference will supply the evidences you require. What the Lord has defined in this way, should not be confused by saying that each refer to the same company, for in doing so confusion and misunderstanding can arise, where none need be.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

charity · Dec 6, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
okay...have a few questions and I might get this wrong because I’m struggling here. First, I’ve maybe found something we do agree on? The Three Spheres Of Blessings
(1) "The earth" (Matt. 5:5) The Kingdom
(2) "Jerusalem which is above" (Gal. 4:26) The Bride
(3) "In heavenly places" (Eph. 1:3) The Body

Do not disagree with New Jerusalem as The bride. maybe the disagreement or ongoing question for me is not who is The Bride...but who is a part of The Bride?

I was reading on the topic of three spheres of blessing and like I said I’m struggling. Was about to give up ...because should it be this difficult? instead I watched a video by the same author of the links thinking maybe hearing it would help. He said something like:

“John ministers to the family of Faith.
Paul ministers to the first born son of Faith.” Maybe got that wrong but what does that mean?

Also He spoke of three aspects of adoption:
-Jew nationally
-The children of Abraham spiritually
-The church from the foundation of the world, going up to where Christ sits at the right hand of God.

Do the three aspects of adoption help with understanding the three spheres of blessings?

Hello @VictoryinJesus,

@farouk is right in his reply#210, regarding the definitions God has given to us in His word.

My love to you, ViJ. Forgive me, but I can't respond to your entry at the moment.

May you be still before your Maker, and rest in Him, knowing that He alone is faithful and true.

Within the grace and love of God our Father,
In the person of His Son,
risen and glorified and sat at God's right hand.
Chris

VictoryinJesus · Dec 6, 2020

charity said:
Hi @VictoryinJesus

I can relate to the disconnect. We are all so different aren't we? Our backgrounds and influences play their part in that perhaps. I am used to the works of the man who wrote the booklet in the link, but you are not. It was written many years ago now, and so the style and means of expression will reflect that. It considers what Scripture says concerning the companies figured by, 'The Bride' and 'The Body,' and also 'the Wife' .

The fact that there are three spheres of blessing in the age to come is not difficult really, for 'the earth' and 'far above all' are two, the third being the new Jerusalem which will come down out of heaven to the earth, which is 'The Bride of the Lamb.'

If reading this booklet is not for you, ViJ, that's no problem. I just referred to it in case it may be of help. The writer himself makes a point of insisting that his readers bring all that he writes to the word of God for confirmation, for we are all liable to make mistakes.

Take care, and keep praising God.
For He alone is faithful and true.
Your sister in Christ.
Chris

you are always so kind and patient. You’re right it is very foreign to me. I’m not saying it is wrong but only I’m struggling because it would require change of so much thought, that I do not know where to begin first. Not saying He is not able to help undo wrong thinking and maybe one day it is possible I’ll say ...wow why did I make it so difficult when it was so evident ‘the three spheres of blessing.’

Really I’m not asserting or fighting to be able to be called ‘the bride.’ Still remember when it became clear and this immense burden was lifted regarding ‘the virtuous woman’ in proverbs...when it became evident the virtuous woman whose husband praises her, is not a single woman who purchases a field, but a woman adorned of her husband; that New City, New Jerusalem. Proverbs 31:25-30 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come. [26] She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness. [27] She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness. [28] Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her. [29] Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all. [30] Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised.
point is there came a time of being let off the hook that not a single woman alone can measure up to the proverbs 31 woman, but New Jerusalem can.

You are again right that we come from different walks and back grounds. It was the ‘what makes you think you are part of the Bride’ question. Maybe it is ‘part of’ because when I think of ‘part of’...I think of my two daughters. Both are a part of me. They probably would hate to admit it but they inherited not only the obvious traits, but also quirks, flaws, a whole list of baggage passed down and inherited. Although they are not their mother, they are still a part of her. Maybe we all can relate (sons or daughters) to the dreaded ‘oh no, I’ve become my mother’ or ‘I’ve become my father’.
(1 Corinthians 15:48-49) So also with New Jerusalem...can not see how children of New Jerusalem are not also a part of her, in inherited fruit. ‘children of’ ‘born of’, not saying the children of, the children born of; are their mother but ...still struggle with...how are the children not a part of an ‘incorruptible seed’ and inherited of the same Spirit...in becoming as ‘to walk in newness of Life’?

maybe none of that makes sense but it is areas I struggle with. I’ve never fully understood: The Father, The Son, and The Spirit. Which honestly reminds me of: ‘The wife’ ‘the bride’ and ‘the body’. three. No, I do not understand but as He said all is One ...for me I’m not sure I have to understand except that it all points to God.

curious though ...if you refer to Him as ‘a Father’, as ‘a husband’ or as ‘a brother’?

BarneyFife · Dec 6, 2020

charity said:
Hello @BarnyFife,

i am a dispensationalist, Barney, but that has nothing to do with the truth of the statement I made that you require proof of. Proof comes by looking at the usage of each figure. In this case, 'The Bride' and 'The Body', and all that relates to either within the context in which they come. The fact that they are two separate companies becomes obvious. References can be found by consulting a concordance, and the context of each reference will supply the evidences you require. What the Lord has defined in this way, should not be confused by saying that each refer to the same company, for in doing so confusion and misunderstanding can arise, where none need be.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Our Lord and Head.
Chris

Restricting the Bride metaphor to ethnic Israel is inconsistent with Paul's reference to the church as spiritual Israel in several places. And dispensationalism has at least somewhat to do with your interpretation.

I require nothing; I merely asked if you had any scriptural evidence. If you don't, that's fine. You seem to be contending that the bride and the body are two distinctly separate objects, metaphorically speaking. "Proof" is a strong word. Since many of us disagree and cite evidence to the contrary, and you have provided no text which positively declares them to be different, your appeal to context is not terribly convincing. Declaring something to be obvious does not make it so. We simply don't agree on this point.

And he (Abram) believed the LORD, and He counted it to him as righteousness. (Genesis:15:6)

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. (Romans 10:12)

Romans 2
28For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

amadeus · Dec 6, 2020

VictoryinJesus said:
@amadeus concerning the ten virgins which all slept consider Ephesians 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Amadeus said:
The following verse make a distinction between the "friend" of the bridegroom and the "bride":
"He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled." John 3:29

VictoryinJesus said:
I’ve always heard in Revelation 3:20 he stands without and knocks at the door. Tried to find he stands without but haven’t yet? Do you know where the stands without and knocks and if anyone will open he will come in originate from? A verse? A question I’ve had lately is why does he stand without? was not the foolish virgins the ones standing without knocking and the door was shut? the Lord within, those without knocking?

A few thoughts. You quoted "He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled." John 3:29

Behold (Look)
I stand at the door
and knock (to strike)
If anyone hears My voice
and opens the door
I will come in to him
And will dine with him, and he with Me. Revelation 3:20

Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. [2] Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; [3] Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds: [4] That I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.(as I ought to speak to who?) [5] Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time. [6] Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.
Colossians 4:1-6

What I have seen generally is two doors, the one opened by Jesus on the cross through which any person may have received an invitation to enter. We knock at this door to gain entrance. Who is allowed? Those with a wedding garment, but what is that? Perhaps here:

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:" Eph 6:13-17

The second door for many people is the difficult one to fully open so that God can come and first clean things up so that there are clean place which can be filled up with the "very good" things which God made in the beginning.

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Gen 1:31

What are these good things today? Perhaps we need only to eat His flesh and drink His blood every day as often as we would eat our meat and potatoes and drink our coffee? That which is "very good", I believe, is that which is Alive, as God sees being Alive.

Adam and Eve killed the very good in themselves when they disobeyed God. They died... but God left for them a glimmer of Hope in the promise of Jesus. Jesus opened the one Door but he also made it possible for us to be able to really open our own door by the power of the Holy Ghost, but even then we had to really be willing and desirous of opening fully to Him. In the OT prior to the birth of Jesus, we see David speaking of these very things to his son, the next king, Solomon:

"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." I Chron 28:9

David understood that even then [time-wise as men understand time prior to the sacrifice of Jesus] God would assist if a person could open himself up...

David received a special gift but was it more special than what is available to us? Here in this psalm after David messed up he asked that God not remove the gift because of his failure:

"Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit." Psalm 51:9-12

At that time not everyone was David and not everyone was king of Israel, but today because of Jesus every person can have the very good which I believe was available to David and which he did have...

Here we see a man who received the Holy Ghost and was cleaned... but failed to fill the clean place with "very good" things of God:

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

Fill it with what?

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever." John 6:53-58

This is the real flesh or bread rather than the manna eaten in the wilderness by the natural children of Jacob. This is the real blood of the Body of Christ, the Holy Ghost, the white blood, rather than the wine/grape juice or even the red carnal blood of the body that died on Calvary. This Blood was also to be poured out on the Day of Pentecost [as per Acts ] so that the eaten flesh/Body of Jesus could thereby be quickened [brought to Life] within you and me.

BarneyFife · Dec 6, 2020

Paradox:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:17)

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. (Genesis 5:5)

Solution:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Peter 3:8)

So Adam didn't quite make it a full day after all; just 93% of a day.

Just thought I should post an on-topic piece once in a while.

amadeus · Dec 6, 2020

BarnyFife said:
Paradox:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2:17)

And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. (Genesis 5:5)

Solution:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Peter 3:8)

So Adam didn't quite make it a full day after all; just 93% of a day.

Just thought I should post an on-topic piece once in a while.

No one made it to that 1,000 year mark definitely according to scripture where Methuselah, the longest one on record, only completed 969 years. One thousand is a special goal to be attained. Who will make it as far as that?

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