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There is a dynamic to the messianic kingdom that I think many fail to notice. There will still be sin. there will still be death. And there will still be the nations (exclusive of Israel) that will be required to come to Jerusalem to honor festivals laid out in Torah. And those that don't...

Yep. And and Matthew 25:1-13 is an exposition on Ezekiel 20. For the removal and hiding of the righteous before all the calamities go down, Isaiah 26 goes into a lot of detail, and King David alludes to it in Psalms 27:5 which contains a veiled reference to Jeremiah 30:7.

It really would be a blessing if you actually did research instead of just putting stuff out there as fact. The Majority of the organized church has not been "rapture to heaven" as you put it. In the history of the church especially since the 4th century, the majority opinion has been...

Well, no it is not "made up". The Latin "Rapturo" from which we get our English "rapture" is the word used for the Greek "harpazo" in the Latin Vulgate which means the snatching or taking away. Rapture is definitely in the bible, and directly in wording not in a theory. We can debate as to...

Except for one teensie bit of a problem. My initial post on this thread quoted your initial post that started it. You never quoted Yeshua in that post. It was just a rant. And in every subsequent post you have made to me, you haven't quoted Yeshua either. You have gotten in so deep you...

No, you allegorized the scripture to extremes and violated the basic principles of hermeneutics to make it fit your world view. Be careful, one could be bordering on calling YHVH a liar.

And you are the sole arbiter of what is a bad translation? By all means, have at it. Jerome wrote the Latin Vulgate in the 4th century. He grew up with Greek as a primary language. And now you come along 16 centuries later and claim to be more wise than Jerome regarding what is the best way...

Why don't you say what you really think! Why is it that instead of focusing on supporting texts for ones position, character attacks seem to be the norm against those that don't agree with one's pet theology. I think we were warned about heading down that road. Something like not receiving...

Funny, that Dr Kenneth Wuest, head of NT Greek at Moody Bible Institute for many decades before his death in 1961 thought that that the scripture, especially 2 Thessalonians 2 clearly supported the pre-trib position. Virtually every translation of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 prior to the KJV said it...

Some did go into the promised land, just as some will go into the future promised land. Poor analogy though, as the scripture is clear that in the future, Jacob (Israel - all 12 tribes) will be saved Per Ezekiel 20, Matthew 25, Jeremiah 30, and on and on. What about the 12,000 from each of the...

"fact remains" as you have perceived it, which does not substantiate it as a fact. Yes indeed, the man of sin will be revealed before Yeshua returns to this earth. But the gathering or rapture, he does not return to this earth. Did you not read where Paul says we will be gathered in the air...

Wrong. Not out "gathering back" to Christ, but our gathering to Christ at His appearing. It is talking about the coming of the Lord and our being caught up to Him. In verse 2, the Thessalonians were upset that they were already in the Day of the Lord. The only reason they could be upset is...

Many Greek scholars and others would say that it does have to do with the rapture. virtually every translation of the NT prior to the KJV translated apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 as "departure", "a departure", "the departure", "a departing". Even the Latin Vulgate uses dicessio which is a...

Keep diggin that hole

Ok. Enjoy the ride. It's been fun. I never accused you of anything but all you have done is accuse me of being deceived and malicious in my intent. Let's see how that plays out when we see Yeshua face to face.

Like I stated, enjoy that ride you are on. You are going places I never suggested and I am not interested in doing that. I will make this simple. Paul was not talking about a falling away at all in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. He was talking about the departure or rapture. Will you get off the...

Wow. i hope you enjoy the ride you are on. That is way outside anything that I was asserting, but if it trips your trigger, have fun. I simply quoted the verse when it said man of sin. I didn't imply anything other that that. I have always seen that at the one antichrist of the end times...

Of course He warned of everything. And we can learn many things from that discourse. But that doesn't mean that the redeemed are the ones who have to live thru it. Nothing about Matthew 24 and 25 suggests for one minute that the redeemed in Messiah are in view. Deception of the elect in...

You do indeed have a vivid imagination. I never once brought up the RCC or the Pope in the discussion. Matter of fact, neither crossed my mind and I can't even recall the last time they did. But as for doctrines of men, you are doing the same thing, unless now you are trying to tell us that...

Well, no. Paul did warn of the "great falling away" in 2 Thessalonians 2. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition. Virtually every translation of...