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So then, the witnesses of Revelation are not caught up to heaven either? You claimed they are Enoch and Elijah. You must really hate these guys to make them do what you suggest of them. Going in and out of time warps. After all, Yeshua still hasn't returned at this point in the text...

Then we have a conflict, don't we JIF? Or an apparent one. No problem. This topic is not a condition of salvation, so you are free to choose what you believe about those saints in Matt 27 and I am free to choose what I want to believe about them. We will eventually learn what the facts are...

Genesis 5:24 (NKJV) And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. Well, seems pretty clear. Doesn't say God sent him somewhere. Doesn't say God put him in storage for a later time. It clearly says God took him. So, do I believe Moses or you? 2 Kings 2:11 (NKJV) Then it...

That has been one traditional view. But those early writers that had direct contact with the disciples say that those saints were taken to heaven. They would've had bodies that could face the Father, being the sheave offering of first fruits to the Father. it really isn't that big of a...

They sure received some sort of body. I highly doubt it was a Night of the Living Dead sort of thing going on.... Matthew 27:53 (NKJV) and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many. It is a common point you make and it is somewhat in...

Tell me then..... was the rapture of the saints in Matt 27:52 pre, mid, or post trib? They were after Yeshua Himself was resurrected and that event happened already. So did the trib begin before Yeshua was killed? Far as I can tell, the great tribulation hasn't started. Yet, Matthew tells...

Yeshua went out of His way many times to point us to the Harvest. Since God is a stickler for details, and the feast days of Leviticus 23 are fulfilled in Yeshua's first and second coming, the harvest prescription outlined in Leviticus 23 must also be in play. While Yeshua is indeed the first...

I will give you one passage form the OT that confirms a removal of the righteous, or "rapture", though I could give you several more form the OT. Virtually all of Isaiah 26, which I suggest one starts at v1, but especially.... Isaiah 26:19-21 (NKJV) Your dead shall live; Together with my dead...

Really? Then who are those that are alive on the earth, procreating and dying, when the Messiah is reigning for 1000 years after He returns? Who are those nations that will be punished by having rain withheld from their land for failing to go to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles annually...

Well... there seems to be several passages in the OT that support that "false escape doctrine". Maybe in ways that out do anything in the NT. And therein lies the crux of the issue. The Torah specifies that two witnesses are required to confirm an issue. We have those... the OT and the NT...

Dictionary Definition h3704. כֶּסֶת ḵeseṯ; from 3680; a cushion or pillow (as covering a seat or bed): — pillow. AV (2) - pillow 2; band, fillet, covered amulets, false phylacteries used by false prophetesses in Israel to support their demonic fortune-telling schemes Ezekiel 13:20 (ESV)...

True, the false Messiah will make war with the saints, but that idea does not really support the other idea that some in the ecclesia will be left. Enoch was a saint. He walked with God and was taken, or raptured. Elijah was a saint and raptured also. It can be supported that those saints...

That is translation, and then, only one. I consulted 12 translations and the Strong's. Pillows is not a common translation among many, some even predating the KJV including the Septuigant. The most common translation of "keset" is amulets, magic charms, phylacteries, etc. One should always...

I don't see any correlation. The phylacteries and amulets of women who are involved in idolatrous worship and leading others astray doesn't seem to fit the context of what we are discussing.

Look at a Latin Vulgate and let us know if you still don't see anything in the Bible about a rapture. And while you are doing that, do an etymology study of the word "rapture".

Well, the greatest miracle I could have experienced, I have. That of being made righteous to God thru Yeshua. Am I supposed to be looking for another? As for an idea about the rapture or removal of the righteous, as with any doctrine, I look for the testimony of two witnesses, as is required...

Lengthy thread now, and I might have missed someone pointing this out, but while many will dismiss the Rapture as being unBiblical, it is clearly a word and idea expressed in the Bible and not even a theory, but fact. Well... maybe not an English Bible. But it is in the Latin Bible. The...

The only problem in using Matthew 24, is we have to keep in mind that Yeshua was giving a confidential briefing to His inner circle of Disciples. And the key question was in verse 3.... Matthew 24:3 (NKJV) Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell...

When in doubt, take a look at the enemies of Yeshua and what they thought He was claiming. There sure didn't seem any doubt in their minds who they thought He was claiming to be and at one point wanted to stone Him for it. John 10:31-33 (NKJV) Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him...

In some respects, it also impugns the character of God Himself. Very dangerous territory to get in to.