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I appreciate your charitable attitude more than this reply will likely reflect, but your soteriology—which I thought at first to be some flavor of hyper-Calvinism—is simply too convoluted for simple folk to understand, which is just an intellectual deal-breaker for me. Nevertheless, I respect...

"'Cause we don't need no help in Pennsylvania... especially from a Jew." :P

How does all this great stuff happen to my nephew, who died before he reached a year old? (That is, if he was lucky enough to be chosen for Moses's team.) .

God makes and remakes the things that are seen from the things that are not seen. This is only inconsistent with the narrow view of human reasoning. Hebrews 11:3 — Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things...

I wanted to be a Blue Angels pilot back in '82 but I had imperfect vision. I guess today you could just identify as 20-20 and the Navy would just have to fork over one of those blue and gold F/A-18 Hornets for you to drive around. :)

:watching and waiting: .

It was sarcasm, Jay. I'm a free-willer and I've visited a few caves but the two are not related. But you should do what you think is best instead of threatening to do it. :)

Meanwhile, we have two dudes dukin' it out for Olympic Gold in the Women's Boxing finals? Kinda puts things into perspective (or not o_O). :/

Hey that's not as bad as my dad shacking up with his gal pal - lol.

But not not like that Manic Mechanic in that ZZTop song 'cause that's just creepy (but cool, too :csm) :)

What's wrong with that? The important thing is what she can tell me about the effect the Berlin Blockade, the Bay of Pigs, and the Cuban Mkssle Crisis had on the spirituality of rank-and-file America. That's right. I'm actually Dan Rather. :P

Exactly! Some of these people have had to suffer much just to become as not-so-wise as they have. There's something highly respectable about that—especially if they're the slightest bit humble about it. :)

Problem is, hyper-Clavinists generally don't make a discernible distinction. I guess the idea is that many (all?) are called but few are chosen, so to speak. That always seemed kinda backwards to me, but I'm getting used to and even comfortable with that as time passes. The LORD and I have...

It looks infinitely complicated to me. It's the old "foreknowledge vs. foreordination" question, and I'm as clueless as to the answer as I was when I first considered it many decades ago. Folks who can't humble themselves to leave the unknowable with God are bound to stumble over it, I figure...

That wasn't very nice, was it?

So, yeah, let's talk about this fresh, new topic. Maybe if we cover it with water and put in the fridge overnight it'll perk up like celery - lol. :P

@St. SteVen, My auto-correct won't let me type derailing - lol (it did that time, but it usually changes it to detailing—like de-tailing - lolol :P). :)

Didn't get enough signatures to get on the ballot in some heavenly states, I guess. Them's the breaks for an independent candidate, you know. We're gonna get in trouble for derailing this thread. I guess I should stop and take a popcorn break or maybe have some cactus candy - lol. :)

Unless they simply have yet to figure out that they're actually electists who have just been ignorantly hanging out with the spiritual riff-raff. .

I suppose this is just part of another way of saying that those who see the obvious impotence of the god here described are simply blinded by their own non-electness. .