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I often do myself.

Am I talking to a layman in Scripture? Jesus existed before creation (John 17:5 and other passages), how can He be a human ? Now please answer the question with a clear yes or no or undecided, can you do that? John 3:13 - No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven...

Gotquestions seldom disappoints.

And now you successfully ducked the original question you (and no one) can possibly answer, only believe. You are a smart guy with decent Scriptural knowledge and I have a hard time to believe you missed the dilemma you are facing. Now please answer the question with a clear yes or no or...

It's NOT a doctrine - John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. "Denial ain't just a river in Egypt." - Mark Twain

Nah. No, you are calling, not Paul. Sorry, I apologize.

You are not understanding or ducking the question, the text speaks of His human stay on Earth, not of His identity when He was with the Father before creation. Again, show me evidence Jesus was created before He incarnated as a human.

Those who need insults to make their point, have no point. Fixed it for you.

That's not good enough, do you also believe that Jesus (the One who descended from heaven and was born like us) was created? And if the answer is yes, how do you know?

Why make it personal?

Like us Jesus was born, in that sense we are all creations of God. But unlike us, Jesus descended from heaven as the Son of Man - John 3:13 Chew on that.

Romans 14 comes to mind, the whole chapter. Some selections.... Rom 14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in...

Fortunately for her you are not the final arbiter.

Disappointing, with the exception of @Aunty Jane It's about truth finding, not about winning, or in competition.

Thanks for the invitation. I think that in the meantime everything that needed to be said is said. I take a break from the discussion. Be well.

Amen. @David in NJ @amigo de christo @LatterRain and others. Trying (emphasis added) to understand Isaiah 9:6, maybe context helps. Jes 9:6 - For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor...

How did that answer my question, I repeat - How can a human be called Mighty God and Everlasting Father ?? I am pretty sure you can do better.

We share that same faith, we probably have more in common than we disagree about. God bless you.

And by now you successfully killed Isa 9:6, so I repeat - For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Who is this child? Who is this son...

I see no problem with John 1:1 What I see -- as a pattern -- is that clear passages that hint to God the Son become victim to all kind of gymnastics to deny its meaning up to the point of called as mistranslated, or worse, forgeries by the Roman Catholic Church. The only real forgery I have...