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No offence, but that's a cop out. The book was written for us to read and understand. If we don't understand it, we need to try harder.

What do you think you are?

You probably haven't read my other posts yet where I address this. I believe "the spirit returns to God who gave it" is a poor translation. It should read "the breath of life returns to God who gave it". He gave in Genesis 2:7. Nowhere does scripture tell us that he gave us a spirit, but he...

Your reference to "mortal to immortal", etc. comes from 1 Corinthians 15, which also clearly distinguishes between the earthly body, and the heavenly body. You however, are claiming that our ultimate prize is the resurrection of our earthly body, "through our eternal spirit", aka our heavenly...

Where in scripture does it distinguish between physical death and spiritual death, as you are? Ephesians 2 does not do that. Paul describes the sinner as "dead in sin", but he's not explaining exactly what he means by that, and he's certainly not distinguishing between spiritual death and...

Paul said there is an earthly body and a heavenly / spiritual body (1 Cor 15), which to me means that we do not have both bodies at the same time. You're implying however that we do. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but you believe that the resurrection is simply the reunification of...

Can you show me an example written after 70 AD?

It appears to, but like I said in my other post, the word "spirit" there would be more accurately translated as breath of life. That is the breath of life that God gave us in Genesis 2:7. And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of...

I think the word spirit there would be more accurately translated as "breath of life". It is the same word used in Genesis 6:17 where it is translated as breath of life.

Again, if the person goes to heaven (as a spirit) then the person is not returning to dust, nor sleeping in the earth. Yet the Bible is clear, in the old testament, that the people did return to the dust. So you can not say that the people went to heaven. You also can not say that the body...

Yes, but death of the body is not death of the person, because the person is the consciousness. If the consciousness stays with the spirit, then the spirit is the person. So if a person lives on as a spirit, then the person has not died, only the body.

That doesn't make sense because if the old testament saints had spirits, then they would never have died, but they did die. They returned to the dust and slept with their fathers. And if they had spirits, and lived on forever after death in spirit form, then there would have been no reason...

Good study. :thumbsup: You make some good points, but 1 Thess 5 still implies they have different meanings. Also Genesis 2:7 tells us that the soul is something we are, not something we have. So there's still something missing in the understanding of these words.

o.k. I've been responding to both you and spiritual Israelite, so I lose track of who said what, but even so, how can you say they are the same thing in light of 1 Thess 5:23? 1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be...

Funny, it seems we both referenced that scripture at the same time. You'll notice that I did address that verse in my other post, and it supports my position, as you'll see. It's not the spirit that goes up to God. It is the breath of life. If you don't look at the meanings of the original...

You're looking at the English translation, but the book was not written in English. I'm not a Greek scholar, but I'm smart enough to recognize when the translators have used a word that either no longer means what it meant in 1600, or was just a poor translation to begin with. You say...

He did see a part, but again, this is the Greek word Psuche which means breath of life. He saw their breath, not their spirit. Using the word "soul" in this translation is misleading. Ecclesiastes 12:7 tells us the breath of life returns to God who gave it. He gave that breath in Genesis...

I agree that the spiritual body is not realized until the resurrection. You and I just disagree on the timing of that resurrection. We agree that it happens at Jesus' return, but we disagree on the timing of that return.

In Genesis the word translated as soul is Nephesh which means "a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion". In 1 Thess 5 the word is Psuche which means "the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d)...

Those verses do not tell us what a soul is. Only Genesis 2:7 tells us. And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. You see. We do not have a soul. We are a soul. So we are not three parts. We are...