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great tribulation > then Jesus' return > then eternity > then destruction of this present earth and its heaven > then 1000 years > then last rebellion > then Great White Throne Judgment IOW, the beginning of eternity begins with the 2nd coming and involves the destruction of this present...

I can't see that fitting Premil nor Amil since both positions have saints already in immortal bodies before the GWTJ even begins. Even if the GWTJ happens the same day Christ returns, as Amil believes, the last trump is still meaning prior to the GWTJ. Therefore, as of the last trump, eternity...

Even in the early days of the church there were already Christians that had better insight into some of these things than Amils do today since some saints, such as Justin Martyr saw the significance of a thousand years and even pointed out how Adam, for example, fell short of living an entire...

Exactly! But even so, Revelation 20:6 is only pertaining to saints that never lose their salvation at any time, and that Amil and NOSAS contradicts that, while Premil and NOSAS doesn't contradict it. Therefore, Amil can't be the correct position since both OSAS and NOSAS are Biblical and that...

I didn't contradict anything since you obviously didn't know what I meant when I said OSAS vs NOSAS doesn't involve Eschatology positions. Why don't you pay closer attention at what I was addressing at the time instead of taking my post out of context like you typically do a lot of the time...

There is no way in a million years that anything recorded in 2 Peter 3 is meaning a thousand years and a little season after Christ has returned. That makes nonsense out of what is recorded in 2 Peter 3 and other passages in both the OT and NT connected with what is recorded in 2 Peter 3. What...

Unfortunately, Preterists and those that agree with these Preterists, would have us believe great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be, is already in the past and that it involved unbelieving Jews and 70 AD. If they say so. They...

You seem to be somewhat conflating things here. To be overcome by the beast doesn't mean they fall away if they refused to worship it, and by doing so it allowed the beast to continue nonstop persecuting them, even killing some of them. Anyone that falls away means that they escape nonstop...

That has nothing to do with Premil. There are some Premils that believe only OSAS is Biblical and that NOSAS isn't. And there are some Premils that believe both are Biblical. The same is true of Amils and probably Preterists as well. NOSAS has zero to do with Eschatology positions. But I will...

Why are you unable to accept that overcome can be applied in more than one manner to someone? Jesus overcame, did He not? And did He not have to die first in order to overcome? Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne , even as I also overcame, and am...

Yea, right, I expect all those things to be literal the same way, for example, it's raining cats and dogs outside, and that I expect the cats and dogs to be literal since the raining outside is literal. You might think I'm an idiot yet I'm not one. You treat me as if I am one by asking silly...

Since I tend to think outside the box a lot, I tend to look at it like the following, right or wrong. In a real world application a bride consists of herself and a wedding gown. Which could mean the NJ symbolizes the wedding gown. It would still mean that the city is literal the same way the...

The least you could do, rather than avoid, is answer the question I asked about Jude 1:14-15. Do you agree or disagree that the 2nd coming in the end of this age is in view? This is important the fact Zechariah 14:5 records this same exact event. IOW, you can't have one passage involving a...

I have read that article in the past the fact I have been aware of mountainretreatorg for quite some time now. Maybe 15 years or more. A cpl of things to note. Until Zechariah 14:12 is fulfilled first, verses 16-19 can't be fulfilled in the meantime. I already know how you interpret Zechariah...

Zechariah 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. You would have us believe...

Some of this I can maybe somewhat agree with you about. But even so, in my mind Zechariah 14:12 has not come to pass yet, in any sense. And until Zechariah 14:12 comes to pass, Zechariah 14:16-19 can't come to pass in the meantime. And that presents a major problem for any view other than...

What does any of that have to do with Zechariah 14:12? Nothing pertaining to 70 AD could possibly explain Zechariah 14:12. It is Preterist nonsense if one insists that Zechariah 14:12 can be explained per 70 AD. And look what precedes Zechariah 14:12. Zechariah 14:11 And men shall dwell in it...

That's what I tend to think might be the case as well. And if so, so much for the thinking that the lost wake up in hell upon death and are burning in literal flames of fire. They can't be burning in hell if they are going about taking possession of humans still alive on the earth. Hmmm...maybe...

Not really. I don't take that to necessarily mean literal Jerusalem in the ME. But I think it might be involving the 42 month reign of the beast, though. And I don't take any of that to be involving the literal city Jerusalem in the ME. The following is something I have noticed. Maybe a...

If things were initiually hidden in the OT and revealed in the NT, and that this basically is your position, you are being just as unreasonable as @WPM is if you are insisting that unless the OT said these things outright, then it can't be so. IOW, it contradicts that you expect things to be...