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Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

I don't want you to admit such a thing. Are you being honest with me?

Either God controls all things or He doesn't. Which is it?

If nothing about you is self-existent, then how can anything about you be yours alone? Do you not belong to God? It sounds to me like God owns you, and your will is not your own. Your mind depends on God's power to exist. Do you agree with this?

Absolutely. Have I given you reason to believe that I am not being honest with you? What does a Christian need to do in order to have a nice discussion with other Christians? Are you being honest with me?

Self-existent as in, not metaphysically depending on anything but oneself for current and future existence of self.

Is any part of the human self-existent? Matt, Please do not order me to discuss in your style. I will not do it to you. Coming from you, what does it mean to back someone in a corner, if not meant literally? The Determinists are who often get hit with being called robots. Don't worry about...

Try page #1. If it was answered with reverence to order and completion, then perhaps there would be no obfuscation to cloud the board. If you do your part in heavy lifting, I'm sure you'll find it.

Thanks for contributing, Matt. Do you believe that God gave man power that does not depend on God to exist, so that man can use it to think on his own apart from God?

Already done, Marks. I am waiting for you to address the question I shared.

Marks, Not within Post #1. Consider the flow of our conversation that began from Post #1.

Against order and completion, you are skipping my chase in order to arrive to yours.

Marks, Do I need to do all of the heavy lifting to maintain order and completion? The first one I asked you that you still haven't answered (in order beginning from Post #1).

We already began that discussion, Marks. I need your answer in order to continue it.

Already done Marks. Definitions are provided in Post #1.

Where is the contradiction? Of course you did not say that God can be a liar. What does that have to do with our discussion from earlier? To suggest He can be a liar for programming and speaking certain things is to hint that He is not really incapable of lying. I can just as easily say God...

Marks, I don't want you dancing around anything. I want you to answer my question. Order and completion.

Having discussions about a specific type of 'Free Will' and a specific type of Determinism.

Marks, I explained in my previous message that I have comments to make, but I hold back for the sake of a method that we both agreed on (order and completion). Are you perhaps without an answer for my question?

You taught that no choices means no effectual free will, and that God can limit our choices. Yet, you say He does not violate our free will. Therefore, you must believe that limiting effectual free will is not a violation of free will. Am I mistaken?