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And anytime someone argues that the plain meaning of Scripture means something else you know he is arguing from a baseless position that tries to make a horse chestnut into a chestnut horse. You cannot make "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me" mean "My God, My God, You haven't forsaken Me."

We need to be clear: 'Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes [My life] from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it up again. This command I have from My Father' (John 10:17-18). No...

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove with your Bible quotation; perhaps you would be a little clearer, please? As for the challenge in the title of the thread, perhaps I may offer a syllogism: 1. Evil cannot dwell with God (Psalms 5:4). 2. The Lord Jesus cast out demons and evil spirits...

There is no separation of Church and State in Britain (in theory, at least!). The Queen is Head of State and also head of the Church of England. Therefore carols and 'nativities' have always been part of the activities of primary schools, and Gideons are permitted to take school assemblies and...

Your comments are both snide and patronizing. You have described my beliefs as heresy although you know perfectly well that they are mainstream teachings, and then, to try to avoid being censored by the mods, you add the non sequitur that I am not a heretic. Insinuation rules where courage...

This is an egregious non sequitur. We would expect God not to forsake a righteous, sinless Person, but how does that help sinners? It doesn't! 'For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness, nor shall evil dwell with You........You hate all workers of iniquity........' but '....You...

I pass over your snide, patronizing comments and cut to the chase. God is holy, utterly holy and therefore He will not look upon sin. God is just and therefore judges sin wherever it is found. But God is love as well: He delights in mercy, and so His infinite wisdom devised a way whereby...

Sorry, Nancy, but you are denying the plain meaning of the Scripture.

It is three-fold: "This command I have received from My Father" (John 10:17-18).

Well you are calling me (and a host of evangelical Christians down the ages) a heretic because that is what I believe. You asked me what it means that Christ was forsaken; I replied that it means that He felt Himself forsaken, because He was. Once again, you cannot make the Scriptures mean the...

We do disagree, and don't call me a heretic. God did forsake Him during the time described above; that is why He felt forsaken and that is why He said so. You cannot change the plain words of the Bible to suit your mistaken theology.

You have not dealt with it at all. I want you to deal with my post #224. Christ died to satisfy God's justice; that He might be just and the justifier of the one who believes in Jesus. This is how Satan is defeated; that he can no longer accuse the brethren, because Christ has taken their sin...

I've just replied to this on the other thread. It means that, as a man, He felt Himself forsaken. Otherwise He would have said something else, wouldn't He? When He was praying in the garden, His Father sent an angel to strengthen Him. On the cross, nothing. He felt Himself utterly alone...

And I am asking about what you say on this matter. It seems we're at an impasse. Well if you've read everything he has written, including his seven volume work on Hebrews and nine volumes on other topics, I would have thought you might have got his name right. The Works of John Owen I have...

The Scriptures are not a wax nose to be punched into any shape that suits your theology. You cannot change, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me" into "My God, My God, You haven't forsaken Me," At a minimum, our Lord felt Himself entirely alone and forsaken. "Why are You so far from...

I'm not going to argue with a Hebrew expert as you clearly are, but I will note that nowhere in the O.T. is sabach (Strongs 5442) used as a verb. I have no problems at all with you finding an allusion to Genesis 22 in the verses. Such things abound in the Scriptures. I do have a very serious...

Are you suggesting that the Holy Spirit has miss-translated our Lord's words in Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34? 'And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, saying, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" That is, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"' I don't know Hebrew, but I know...

No. I think you need to study and reply to my post #224 to help you understand what the Bible says on the matter That is certainly a part of it. It is not correct. Your theology is far too earthbound. May I direct you to Luke 21:16-18? It may be a help to you. How can one be put to death...

@John Caldwell I'm sorry! How could it have slipped my mind? Not only the above, but the Lord Jesus experienced being forsaken by God (Psalms 22:1 etc.) so that we never will.

And you are missing my response: The Lord Jesus suffered instead of us (ie. believers) death, punishment and curse due to fallen humanity as the penalty for sin. We have passed from death to life; there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus; John writes to us that we may know...