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No idea what you are talking about. Where does it say half of the saved are left behind? Ha Do not pretend that is 'in the bible' When you say "Those" are... what are you referring to? Those folks in the end who were killed for their faith were...what exactly?

Right, as in not saved by the 'church' but saved by Jesus The church started in Jesus' day and there is no church mentioned after the tribulation begins. Try to get over the hang up of thinking you need to stick a label that says church on all believers in all ages. Name any verse that says...

Says who? Verse? Jesus talked to a lot of people who were not in the church. That does not mean they are not in heaven or saved or saints etc. False logic. They are saved, yes. Not in the church. Saved by the blood does not mean member of the church, sorry. That is why you can not give us any...

That was the point, the church cannot be overcome. Jesus promised.

Weird off topic strawman again I do not engage in what if God was wrong and lying arguments. If the church cannot be the light to the world it was set up to be, and preach the gospel etc, then what good is it? God gave it the special promise of protection so it could. In the tribulation that...

Any and all persecutions of the church have never overcome it. Obviously.

Yes, unless the prophesies of the end are false, they cannot go together. No, the church started with Jesus and Peter remember? Noah was not in the church. Nothing of course in there about the church at all. Jesus had not come in the old testament time. The church was started at a certain time...

What happens to some person is not relevant to the issue of the church being protected from being overcome. Nor can we limit the scope of what hell means to death! There is an underworld that has real beings and powers that really would like to kill us all and stop us from preaching if they were...

Who cares? The church is not one group of people in one city or town. That sort of thing is what we call persecution.

Read the OP. The church cannot be destroyed and scattered and totally killed etc etc. The saints after we leave can be to a large extent as the devil has power over the world at that time. No. When the church is gone the saints are not part of the church. The saints in the old testament like...

The people for the most part in the tribulation will be unable to witness or buy or sell or meet or preach the gospel etc etc. *except the 2 witnesses and the 144,000) Daniel even makes it clear the power of holy people will be scatted then. If believers at that time could preach the gospel...

I already answered. Jesus said He prepared a place for us and that we will be where He is. The point of Him taking the church away from the earth is similar to a country taking it's diplomats out before a war. Once He returns for us, the world will not escape and the clock is ticking in that...

Totally beside the point and absolutely irrelevant. What happens to a PERSON is not being discussed here. The church is not a person. Pay attention it was told you more than once already that that is a strawman argument. Martyrs have ZERO to do with the church as a whole being broken and...

Did I say that? No. However in the context of prophesy, when the church is gone gone gone, obviously any believers or saints here will not be the church. Another foolish and dishonest strawman argument. Yes! The church will be where God is, the bible says. Not here. Maybe that is what you do...

? Where is the gathering together in the air of both dead and alive believers? Seriously? The church will never be martyred if the promise is true. Millions might be. However the forces of hell are not given permission to overcome the church ever. Period. Bank on it. Whatever way you want to...

Think about it. The church in heaven is not in need of protection. The verse obviously applied to earth. False. Once the power of a holy people is scattered and they cannot do what they were set up to do, preach the good news to mankind, then the world prevails against them. No one said it...

No. That could not fit. Being persecuted is something Jesus said would happen. Having the church wiped out as a body and unable to witness or live is NOT.

Find a mirror because the reverse is true. There is no doubt there will be a gathering in the air of alive and dead believers to go up to be with Jesus. He promised we would be where He is. Guess where He is, and will be until after the tribulation? Heaven. Period. Guess who promised that the...

The gathering together in the air before the wrath of God. And of course there will be multitudes of people that come to faith after that. Zero to do with the church/topic here No one goes into the air to go be with Him then. You are conflating times Which was both true and irrelevant to the...

Yes of course. Having martyrs does not affect it at all. Now imagine what happened in those countries multiplied 1000 times and in every country in the world. Add to that mandatory worship of the Satan man. Etc no comparison whatsoever.