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I was not speaking about new, fumbling Christians, and if you want to know, I don't advocate for a judgement based attitude...I think we need to keep an open spirit about everyone, whether we think they're new, fumbling, lost, seeking, or being lead back after a time of pain. It's not for us to...

Quickly? Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from...

Ah...even though we're pretty much done...I'm sorry, I just have to say: o_O You say I say what? I said: How is me pointing out that God, who is also, through adoption, our Heavenly Father, who rescued us through his love and mercy and keeps drawing us back to himself in forgiveness...in ANY...

Yeah....see, this is just delving into semantics, to my mind. Is God or is God not creator, Lord, and God of all the Universe? That's where I was going with that. When we see that all the 'unjust' will eventually face the judge...God...upon the Throne...then we know full well that they are...

No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people who have had their hearts remade new, their eyes opened to the love of Christ, are not going to turn around and commit spiritual suicide. Would you? Let's push the idea a bit further, shall we? Everyone agrees that after Jesus returns the...

It's interesting, don't you think, how the common accusation these days is that Christians aren't critical thinkers? That we're 'anti-science' and 'anti-reason'. And yet, God is the God of science and reason. Sitting firmly in a biblical world view with a solid foundation of what is morally...

Well, I suppose in wrapping things up, as we seem to be....I would say that I have never suggested that Christians do not have a responsibility. But said responsibility comes FROM salvation, not FOR it. I look after my husband, just as he looks after me, not to ensure our marriage covenant is...

I'm getting the feeling that we're starting to rehash topics we've already gone over....how about you? Is there much point in that, do you think?

I have to disagree...this passage, like pretty much everything Paul wrote, is highly theological in nature. It's true, he's not pontificating in general like an intellectual idiot, he IS speaking to an audience, but what he's addressing them about is quite profound and goes beyond just something...

Alright....let me ask you this: when Paul is talking about something like..this: For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are...

Our Lord who healed the ear of the man arresting him? Or who begged his Father to forgive the men who'd just flogged and crucified him? Our Lord is not gullible, he is merciful. And....he is wise. You give a guilty man enough rope to hang himself or show his true colors..... Everyone is under...

I agree God draws us to him with love, but unsurprisingly (as you know me!) I don't agree with much else. God always knew he would need to send a Savior. Even in the Garden, after the fall, he promised Adam and Eve that 'seed' who would come and crush the head of the serpent. And we know, thanks...

Again, I'm just going with a single point, not because the other was unimportant, but because if we don't start focusing, we'll be lost in an ever-increasing number of posts. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has...

SNORT! Yes, I most certainly did mean to say NOT permanent...nice catch. It would be wise, I suppose, to proof read my responses, but often I shoot 'em off quick as I'm squeezing them in between stuff. But, so glad people get my drift anyway! Thanks again! I might go and edit it :)

Eh...we're always wrong at some point, right? I don't suppose anyone particularly likes saying; 'I was wrong', but it's not like our noses will fall off it happens. In fact, we might actually learn something. To be perfectly frank, I don't really mind being hit with something I can't noodle...

So...my amazing powers of deduction leads me to conclude that our back and forths are getting longer and longer :p. So, in an attempt to whittle the length of my replies down a bit, I thought I'd pick what I see as perhaps the most pertinent points of your post to the conversation, and answer...

Is this like a Schrödinger's cat thing? Like...as long as Christians are 'in the box of life' they exist in a state of saved and unsaved simultaneously? And it's not until they die, and the box pops open that we discover if they're dead or alive?? I think...I would say that it is not a case...

That's the problem when you start a thread...you have to find time to answer everybody! And that can almost be a full time job! If I understand you correctly (which I apparently didn't before, sorry!), you are suggesting that the 'outpouring' of the Spirit is what 'opens' the door for our...

Ah...yeah...nah. What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to...

Well...two things I think. Paul may have indeed be writing to them at that time, and they may have indeed been obeying. But, we also know the early Church was full of mistakes and stumbling Christians. They, like us now, don't have it all together. So, we shouldn't understand all passages like...