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The causal primary of the universe is existence itself — that is, existence is the necessary primary cause in order for all causal interactions to exist. Without existence of the universe, nothing within it could exist — i.e. the reason causal chains can happen is because the universe exists...

So because it happened to fall during battle it makes it invalid? Give me a break. If it had to do with not recanting religion, it is martyrdom. They could be sitting on the toilet for all I care. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhai_Dayala

There are some things in life that we don't understand, but that doesn't mean there isn't an explanation. I don't need to claim some outside supernatural force to explain something since it is no more of an answer than saying it was magic.

I'm not talking about gay marriages. I'm talking about martyrs. And its quite trite for you to claim the "it's not recorded" defense when you also want me to believe in a non-falsifiable invisible being.

You are seeing things—hallucinations.

You are essentially making up a new definition for martyr by insisting that there can be no events leading up to the death. Not all Christian martyrs died minding their own business and attacked for no reason. No doubt, many did. I do not deny that. But you are claiming that no one else in the...

What you just said is you know God — invisible deity — through accepting an idea without any reason or proof, and that this gift is from the unprovable invisible deity. How do you not see this is nonsense? And that I can say I believe in the flying spaghetti monster because he gave me the gift...

The ones who died for not recanting their religion. Those are the ones I'm talking about. You are building a strawman argument. I'm talking specifically about those Saxons, who according to the source you gave me, died because they refused to recant their religion. It didn't say religion and...

I can learn while simultaneously using my logic to reject unreasonable claims. And what makes you think that your perception of things should be the same for every human, especially when you claim to have knowledge above and beyond what humans can reasonably know.

You are arguing with history, not me. There are documented names of pagans who did die for the religious belief. You choose to ignore them. I didn't say every Saxon who died was a martyr. However, by definition, if they died because they refused to recant their religious belief, they are a...

Christians use a wider lens only in that they make non-falsifiable claims and think they can get away with it. I can make any number of those kinds of claims—that there is an invisible god made of spaghetti in the sky. Disprove me! You can't. You see the problem? You are claiming to know things...

When did I say that I didn't know what the word meant? I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore. In order to be a witness to your faith one doesn't necessarily have to be a Christian. You claim no one but Christians and Jews have died for their faith. What you haven't told me is why...

Because I am not convinced of the "evidence" for Christianity and I do not believe that faith is a reasonable thing. If there is no way to prove something, it does not merit belief. I could just as easily believe in the flying spaghetti monster since there is as much evidence there as for the...

I didn't say suicide bombers. You really think there are no Muslims that have ever been persecuted and killed because they refused to recant their beliefs? Please. I'm familiar with the early Christian martyrs. I used to be Catholic and I am well versed in the early Church Fathers and the martyrs.

I'm sure Islam has had martyrs as well, in addition to any number of religions besides Christianity and Judaism. You asked what the martyrs stood to gain from dying — "These martrys had everything to lose and nothing to gain." What they had to gain was heaven.

Nor is it possible to prove that he does. I choose to believe he doesn't, you chose to believe he does.

That's all good and well but that didn't answer my question. Why is it necessary that only Christians were martyrs? Does it somehow devalue your faith if someone of another religion died for their beliefs? By the way, by refusing to recant, they gained heaven. That would be the reward. If they...

Eyvind Kelve wasn't a victim of a land fight. Nor were many others. All you are doing is focusing on the examples I give that could possibly have other explanations. I'm sure you've heard of the word "multifactorial" and that things never have a single cause? The real question, though, is who...

They don't need to be named. It's a historical fact that many Saxons, over 4,000, were killed because they remained pagan. Besides, I gave you a list of a few names already. I don't know why you are fighting this. Does the fact that religion was important to non-Christians somehow devalue your...

Except the ones who didn't convert and were murdered. I'm not arguing that many over history didn't chose to convert rather than die. But, you are deluded if you think only Christians have died for their faith. Just as many have denied their faith to avoid persecution and death. It's human...