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I know you wouldn't do this on purpose, but by attempting to submit your own life of obedience, your inadvertently saying Christ's completed, finished work on Calvary wasn't sufficient.

You just need to be aware that there has only been one who has submitted a life of obedience that had been acceptable. Your completely within your rights to choose to try and be the second one. I'm rooting for you.

Fulfilling correct NT Faith and faithing could result in an obedient act , such as seeming to obey a command of Christ. But if we are fulfilling NT Faith and faithing correctly, we will eventually receive the Spirit of Christ. At this point it wouldn't be us doing it ( obedient acts) but Christ...

Your correct VIC! The understanding of how Faith the noun is fulfilled through Faithing the verb has almost been earased from history. Reading your posts gives me a little hope that the true and intended understanding may still have a chance of being rediscovered. I'm wondering what you know...

But can obedience begin the salvation journey? The answer is no, so there's no Gospel to obey and no guarantee. Example: try sending Ford motor credit a car payment without ever making a contract to buy a car. They can't accept it! Neither will God. Your obedience is not worth enough to...

Remembering, that unless specified, the scriptures are only for those " in Christ". Can I test you and ask what qualified and qualifies you to be "in Christ"?

I see your OP as a perfect description of Satan's kingdoms here on Earth. The ones he tried to tempt Christ with. Nothing more.

What is the specific "self effort" your standing on?

Thanks for getting me caught up. Just think if you have something really important and a legitament concern, trying to get the message out in todays world.

How would you describe a walk in which the denial of self could be applied?

So what would be the "evidence" in our walk as you see it?

In my understanding, God spends way more of His time and resources keeping people out of heaven, than like a beggar sitting on the street corner hat in hand , saying," will you please accept me?" If He has foreknowledge about all things, His efforts would be exerted to change a foreknown...

Yet Jacob had to trick Esau out of His birthright!

Hi Helen, my name is Jay and new to this forum. I haven't read through the entire thread but wanted to give my understanding on it. I've been trying to wrap my head around your first question, when is a Christian not Christian? Because it's kind of a contradiction based upon a misunderstanding...

You remind me of the 8 year old boy who picks on the little girl at the school yard. He puts on a good front like he doesn't like her, when he secretly does. When the Father draws us to Christ, it manifests itself as pondering about things relating to Him alot. Stop kicking against the bricks...

Just an observation.

Repentance simply means to make a turn in our mind. God the Fathers calls a small group out , from among a larger group. Repentance is simply a mental turn or response towards the caller, the Father. Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws or calls them. Repentance, on it's own doesn't...

Depends on who you mean by us.

I also said the scriptures don't tell us what happens and what it feels like to have the mind of Christ. Not what it means to have the mind of Christ.

Ok , what happened when you received the mind of Christ? What did it feel like? Your personal experience. Then validate it with God's word.