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Totally! I find that coming to better understand other people helps me better love them, get new reflections myself, and often find something to rejoice in with together.

That includes trying to understand what you believe (along with everyone else). I'm just not going to seek God's Truth by asking you (or any mortal), I seek God by ask God.

I do talk with him, and everyone else willing to explain their beliefs and answer questions.

Very unlikely. The ideas @n2thelight is discussing here don't really relate to beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

I agree that the hard-care Calvinism complete denial of free will is complete removal of responsibility. A hard-core Arminian (like myself) would say that God gives a person free will to make their choices. No manipulation, no pupeeterring, no rigging. Real free will. And real...

As I've said before, I'm just asking questions so I can better understand what other people believe and spend an afternoon pleasently chatting about God. I'm not here to discover "what's biblical" or "what's True". I turn to God and scripture for that, not forum threads.

Speaking just from my limited understanding of what you seem to believe: The influence of non-God things is rather beside the point. What the big point is God specifically arranging events so that person X does Y, akin to you throwing the ball so your dog fetches.

Everyone agrees that God is omniscient and knows what's going to happen. That's not really a point of debate. The more common point of debate is *how* it happens.

Speaking from the non-Calvinist viewpoint: God knows what we are going to do (everyone agrees on that). He knew Mary would say yes and be willing. But he didn't force or manipulate such an outcome. It was her own free choice.

When convey complex ideas like beliefs, articulation always leaves something to be desired. What makes up a lot of the difference is a person's willingness to answer questions another person is actually asking and explain things. And I give you points for that.

That does explain your position, thank you for taking the time.

That would be called manipulation and ultimately puppeteering. Which I thought you didn't believe in. (No judgement here, either way. I'm just trying to understand what your beliefs are).

A you using the word "predestined" here to mean: A) God knows that this is what is going to happen. No forcing or manipulation, people have will. B) God is going to force this to happen. No will for anyone else. C) _____________________ You can't have both here: they are opposites. One man...

So you are an "Edwardian Calvinist"? What do you mean by that? (To state the obvious, of course you are a Christian. I'm just trying to get a better grasp of the more detailed picture. I majorly appreciate your responses here, they show thought).

Adam didn't create the JW. Neither did the JW himself (because he lacks any will, according to Calvinism). Neither can the JW choose to come to the "real Jesus" (because he lacks any will). trying to convince him to do so seems completely contradictory.

Again.. if you're taking the Calvinist point of view: isn't a JW a JW because God created him that way and wills him to be that way?

Honestly John, I hear you say that you're a Calvinist but... you don't sound like one at all.

(I forgot to say hello to the new forum member John-- where are my manners!?!) Hello John! Welcome to the forum :) I'm Jane. I'm also on a bunch of forums too- talking about God and people's beliefs in Him is my social media time :) I do appreciate your explaining your beliefs posts thus far...

I'm not conversing with you to determine Truth. I consult scripture & God for that. I'm asking you what you believe to better understand what you believe. If you don't have answers, that's what it is. I do admire a person when they have the courage to admit something that they do not know.

So since Bob is a sinner and God made Bob, then... Anthony, I'm asking you for YOUR answer. Not what someone else says. I want to better understand what YOU believe.