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For the sake of making writing easier, I'm going to call your wayward loved one Bob. That's Adam. My question is about Bob. Was Bob made perfect or fallen? And does Bob have free will to choose to whether or not follow Christ, or was Bob's fate pre-determined before his birth? I get praying...

Ok. Rewinding here-- Was this person made perfect, or were they made fallen? You said "choose" here-- to choose imply that this person has the free will to choose follow God or to rebel. Do you believe he had/has that choice, or was everything predetermined before his birth? You're hoping...

So you're ok with your love one being created to be tortured in Hell? And why do you pray for him if none of this has to do with men's will and his fate was determined before he was born?

Roger that. Would it bother you if you were one of these people whom God created pre-destined to Hell? Or if a loved one was/is?

Thank you again for your directness and willingness to answer questions. Just to recap from what I'm understanding of your views thus far: God created some people to go to heaven and some to go to hell. And this is just because God declared it to be thus. Is that an accurate recap?

So, essentially justice = whatever God says so? (I'm think there's a high probability I'm misunderstanding you here)

Thank you. So I take it your view is "God can do whatever he wants with his creation". (Just asking to make 100% sure) As to my next question, could you define "justice" as you use the term.

For starters, I majorly appreciate you being forthcoming with answers. It is refreshing and informative. As to your question: if your answer is "God can do whatever he wants with his creation", then that is indeed an answer, and I thank you for clearly explaining your views to me. (I'm not...

I am specifically interested in *your* beliefs and logic, so your personal words actually mean a great deal here. If you would like to say something along the lines of "I believe ____ because _[scripture verse] _, which I understand to mean __ " that's totally cool. Just posting a bunch of...

Take your gripes with JW and Bible Students elsewhere please.

I will better understand what *you* believe and why *you* believe it if you would explain it with your own words. Something along the lines of "I believe ___ because ___". Again, my efforts here are to better understand what *you* believe, not to engage in proselytizing (giving or receiving).

You misunderstand my intentions here. I am trying to understand what it is you believe and why. This is an effort to try to better understand and love you (and indirectly the larger Calvinist community). I am not here to debate or discover Truth or engage in proselytizing (giving or...

(At this point I'm just trying to figure out were your logic of your beliefs are here, pushing aside everything else) Does scripture not say that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son"? (emphasis mine) And other people were created just to be goats and sent to Hell?

@CoreIssue , this request applies to you (and other individuals too)---

Just because a lot of people are jerks doesn't mean I can't ask for basic considerations. Doesn't remotely mean I'll always get it (I am a realist and acknowledge that fact), but I'll at least ask.

This post helped me understand your perspective SO much more. Thank you for it. Also, thank you for the humility within your words here and the... your words ring honest. I am now... my brain feels like it go the missing piece here and now suddenly sees the logic behind your beliefs and...

So you believe all men go to Heaven and there is no Hell? (Just trying to get that straight

This conversation is not about Smith or Paul or Samual or Billy Bo Bob. If you want to talk to about about any of those people, feel free to give me a PM or start a new thread. Now, back to talking about a person's relationship with Christ, whether such a relationship is received voluntarily...

I am simply looking at the whole picture-- that includes heaven AND hell. I can't ethically just ignore half the picture. If you believe the only way a person gets to heaven is because God does the picking, then that means God picks who goes to hell too. How can do you see God being no...

I'm asking you a sincere question, trying to understand what you believe, and get a response of ... you being facetious. If you don't know the answer to my question or hadn't thought about it or for some other reason don't want to answer, that's ok. I'm not here to make you uncomfortable, and...