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If you are trying to imply a person was involuntarily turned into sheep and now forced to follow Christ, that's just to in there. Sorry, but it's just not.

(backing up here, trying just to understand what you believe, regardless of anything else) How can you say "We know God is not a respector of persons" and believe that he picks some people to go to heaven and some go to hell?

Because this question ultiamately comes down to the nature of God. Yes, God is all powerful. But He is also all loving. Real love is given voluntarily. Real sheep voluntarily follow a real shepherd. And God offers that love and gift to ALL men.

Love must be voluntarily given. Affection that is forced is abuse, not real love. Love and following that is voluntarily given.

I completely believe Psalm 110.3 and Philippians 2.13. God uses His Holy Spirit to testify *every single* person (not just some) and those that *accept* that witness *voluntarily* follow the Good Shepard as His sheep. And through these servant He does wonders. Perfect harmonizing of all these...

It is amazing to me how you guys keep ignoring that a shepherd's sheep *voluntarily* follow him out of love. Instead you keep trying to make it about force.

And a shepherd's sheep voluntarily follow him. Again, voluntarily follow.

If the seeing and following is forced, then obviously the sheep is not voluntarily following.

Again, you believe/acknowledge a sheep voluntarily follow their shepherd out of love, please let me know.

If you believe a sheep voluntarily follows their shepherd out of love, please say so.

This isn't about politics. From where I'm standing, Calvinism is advocating that Christ drags sheep around with a chain around their neck. Rather than a sheep voluntarily follow their shepherd out of love.

Then why do you advocate that Christ chains His sheep?

So you believe a shepherd drags sheep around with a chain around their neck?

This doesn't answer my question. How does a shepherd keep his sheep? Does he chain them? Or are chains unnecessary because they are voluntarily choosing to follow him? In other words: Is free will removed? Or does free will still exist and they are voluntarily choosing to follow him?

How does a shepherd keep his sheep? Does he chain them? Or are chains unnecessary because they are voluntarily choosing to follow him? In other words: Is free will removed? Or does free will still exist and they are voluntarily choosing to follow him?

***Hey, can all the people instructed in informing "Bob" what Bob believes please take the discussion some place other than this thread?*** I started this thread to have a place to give good information from primary sources ("I believe X") specifically to stop the "well you believe X" shinagains.

I have several times: 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they followme: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which...

If you want to discuss LDS beliefs, let us move this to a different venue than a thread on Calvinism.

*sigh* Not LDS beliefs. If you want to get your facts straight, feel free to PM me.

Amen to that.