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1. "I am what I am by the grace of God" 1 Co 15. 2. I went to hell in 2003, and I was smashed into billions of pieces, because I listened to a pastor instead of listening to God, and I have been studying, looking for firm foundations, since 2009. Most answers come when you pray. We are not good...

My point was that you wanted to say "Christ dined with sinners" as if that could overturn the reality that He laid down life (ie, the payment for sins) only applies to His friends, because only His friends abide in Him, which means that that reality is only real for those who accept the truth...

Not sure what connection you're making there.

I don't believe in sinless perfectionism, but the Scripture does say... 1 Peter 4 1Forasmuch then as Christ suffered in the flesh, arm ye yourselves also with the same mind; for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

I don't have anything to work out along these lines other than where those who pay for their own sins, instead of having Christ as the payment, will go after they "get out" since "the unrighteous will not inherit God's Kingdom".

Luke 15 is about sinners who had repented--the prodigal sons who had decided to come back home. They were "lost" and now they were "found". Christ never told people "go and sin some more" He said "Go and sin NO MORE".

Yeah, God relates to all as their Savior, and yet only the believers live in that reality. And, yes, God doesn't remember the sins of those who partake in the New Covenant. I agree. Those who do not partake, however, are under God's severity. This is not difficult to understand. It is not...

Yup, and His life He laid down is only applicable to His friends. You reject that. I can't help you, I've shown you Scripture, and you hate it. What more can I do?

And I am not worried that you are not worried--I believe Scripture what I showed you. You reject God's Word. That's fine. "I'm not worried" as you say.

You can believe any lie you want, true, and I'll believe Scripture which I have shown to you.

Judaism is literally a religion that teaches that tenet--that the life of an innocent takes away the sins of the guilty. That is God's idea.

Well, then, Scripture is a lie. His life He laid down saves people from God's wrath, but those who do not believe "will not see life but God's wrath abides on them." You have your own belief, but it isn't perfectly Christian, since it rejects Scripture.

Well, you can believe what you'd like, I'll just believe Scripture: His laid down life doesn't apply to anyone who disbelieves or disobeys Him. John 15 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are My friends if you do what I command you.

No, Jesus's life He laid down only applies to His "friends", and His "friends" are those who "do whatever He tells them to"--ie, those who abide in Christ. So, Jesus's life He laid down, paying for others' sins, doesn't apply to those who disobey Him. It's not difficult to understand. John 15...

No, it's not a lie, it's just not as you understand! Anyone could join Israel, but that doesn't mean that they had joined Israel. Today, anyone can join themselves to Christ, but that doesn't mean they have.

I never thought or said you should "worry". That is not relevant. Again: In my view, which I have not completely worked out, those who do not accept and walk by Christ will have to pay for their own sins. They owe God a debt of glory. "We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."...

No, the payment is only "in Christ", it is not available to those outside Christ, just as the High Priest's sacrifices were applicable to the Nation of Israel, not the other nations.

I never said they are thrown in the fire forever--in fact, I literally just posted contrary to that idea, so I don't know why you're objecting "they are not thrown in the lake of fire forever" as if I'd said it.

So... just to clarify, so we don't get lost, the issue was that people can be drawn away from abiding in Christ by "idolatry" of a false Gospel spoken by a demon, and this is not a good position to be in because Christ can avail them nothing and they're not in a position to continue receiving...

Well, I would just follow the Scripture and see that they are raised to be thrown into fire.