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Basic kindergarten bible study, we learned 29 years ago there is a mount zion in heaven, and one on earth. I see this all the time, some scoffer acting like he has some knowledge, then demonstrating his celebrated ignorance, and makes his erroneous teachers look bad, because he sits under them...

Are you saying the Jews are not grafted back in? ( Romans 9-11) I agree the 144,000 are not the church, and can not possibly be the church. It says they Follow the lamb wherever he goes, so that tells us they are messianic, jews and not, Orthodox israelite jews.(unsaved). It specifically says...

A gag order would be far worse.

QUOTE "....and cause a mockery". Says the man that does not understand Mt Zion is in heaven. In fact most of the bible I place on the table, your doctrine of omission stumbles over, when seen for the first time.

1) you have no authority oven me as to where I post 2) Mt zion is on earth AND IN HEAVEN...as the Bible declares. Heb 12 18For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19and the sound of a trumpet and the...

The great trib is not Jacob's trouble? Maybe that is where yout views are getting off?

The 144000 are future Jewish messianic, Jews out of the 12 tribes. As the Bible clearly states The enumerable number are those that are left behind and beheaded by the Antichrist, they came out of the great tribulation because they died in the great tribulation, every single one of them...

144,000 that you have invented a clever spiritual back door to erase the bible verses describing them. You left off that they are FIRSTFRIT JEWS NUNBERED 2 DIFFERENT WAYS so you would not attempt to dilute the bible.

Sounds like you are spiritualizing a clear vivid mark required by the AC.

^^^^That is not even close to being plausible. 1) The mark in the forehead 2) The flying scorpions that Sting men for 5 months. 3)The hailstones of fire. 4) Anyone refusing the mark just be headed. 5) Christian's not being allowed to buy or sell. 6) The oceans becoming as blood and the...

Exactly. Those left behind as Jesus taught will be in great tribulation and some will refuse the mark and die. Those taking it will, as you say, go through the trib....but all refusing will die according to the bible. Thank you for affirming the pretrib rapture.

Ask yourself what does Gomer represent in Hosea. Then look at Ruth. In the book Ruth, What does Ruth represent? Those 2 books have tons of typology. The wife is the jews. Current israel ( the wife gone aworing) The bride of Christ becomes the wife in Rev 19. The Jews are not the bride of...

QUOTE "For the dead in Christ shall rise, and the living and remain who've come out of the Great Tribulation, shall be changed." Nope Jesus gave the setting for the rapture. It is opposite your view and position.

QUOTE ""For the record, i disagree and there's no such thing as this chapter refers to, that these raptured 144,000 'firstfruits' Israelites are in Heaven, or even taken in the pre-great trib times."" Not sure what you are saying. The 144,000 are in heaven approx mid trib (mid 7yr trib) as...

QUOTE ""There is evidence in scripture that proves we will go through some tribulation. Turn to the part in Revelation, where demon locusts ascend out of the Abyss and torture mankind for FIVE MONTHS. NOTICE the they only attack those with the mark of the beast, not those without. Obviously...

A better start would be to investigate prior to condemning. To rely on logic rather than scripture is error. You changed the setting in Jesus analogy. You say it is "in all of history". The setting Jesus gave is opposite your setting. Night and day opposite of what you say. Have you ever...

Huh? You didn't get that from me.

You 100% MISS the point. THE BIBLE SAYS....not me....half are taken. So what do POSTRIBBERS do with that? I am showing where "figuring out" end times truth , most ALWAYS , reveals one dilemma after another. I do not have the slightest dilemma with 50% taken/left ( as the bible declares...not...

Excellent pretrib rapture power point! Yes the church has left , and is in heaven during the trib, as Jesus taught. That is why ANGELS preach the gospel during the trib. ......as we see in Rev 14 I also support the pretrib rapture!

I was thinking about this yesterday. Postribber doctrine has a imagined "one coming" that they can not defend. With that in mind, mat 24 has 2 comings depicted by Jesus, one after the trib ( the second coming of rev 19 on millions of horses) and then the rapture depicted by Jesus,: " before...