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As I said before, Jesus willingly took our punishment. It wasn't God abusing his son. There's no one theory of the atonement that is complete. He was our ransom, he conquered death and Satan, he was our substitute, and that's just for starters.

BTW where does scripture tell you to sprinkle anyone? Where does it tell you to baptize babies? So many unbiblical practices in the Catholic Church.

Yes, I have set under OSAS teaching too, but the balance I see in scripture is that the key is remaining in Christ. When I investigated OSAS, I find that the people who follow it can't really know if they are saved. Their response would be that if you fall away you were never saved, which never...

I think we are on the same page, then. If you ever attended any holiness churches, you would know what I mean. I was scared to death when I first got saved that God was gonna kick me out for every sin, because that's how I was taught in church.

Not according to those who believe you lose salvation each time you sin.

I am not saved by my effort. I am saved by Christ's sacrifice. John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal...

Nobody should have to guess whether they are saved or not when scripture says we can know we have eternal life, that we are already seated in the heavens with him. It's not a game of chance.

You must have a different view of literally then I do. If you test the wine and bread scientifically, I guarantee it's still wine and bread. But they represent Christ's blood and flesh, just as each passover element represented something else. Remember, Jesus implemented the remerence of him at...

But you have already claimed baptism equals salvation. So, you are saying they received the Spirit before salvation obviously. The Spirit convicts people of sin. This doesn't always lead to salvation. The indwelling of the Spirit happens after salvation. Baptism is the same as confessing with...

Wow, you believe people receive the Holy Ghost before salvation? That's so unbiblical.

Well, yeah, Jesus has taken the wrath on himself so Christians don't have to. I thought that was what you were protesting against.?

12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I have written these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Sometimes the reason is just poetic. Not every thing is connected. You are not rightly dividing the word, you are just making it say what you want it to. It's like listening to the flat Earthers. Read the Word in context for goodness sake.

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. Ecclesiastes 1:9

I can come up with any theory and then misuse scripture to back it up. "Daniel 10:6 "His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the...

Sacrifices to God are incomplete and even offensive without a changed heart that loves and knows the Lord. First Samuel 15:22 says, “Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to listen than...

If you claimed something was literally your blood, I would expect it to be literally blood. Not hard to understand. Whether Christ mystically inhabits the elements isn't really an issue for me. It doesn't matter. He is there in Spirit, regardless.

I'm not heckling, why would you say that? I'm saying what I get from scripture.

But he is our sacrifice, so not sure what you are saying. And walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. Ephesians 5:2 |l

Substitute equals taking our place. I think you are splitting hairs.