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Hi Vet, As you know we are in agreement in this particular aspect of prophecy, but I've had this nagging thought in the back of my mind for several days and I'd like to know what your answer would be. If the A/C fulfills the Israeli parameters for them to accept him as the messiah and he is in...

We disagree

Kaotic, Your words:" But the word elect just about proves that this is the same event. The gathering in both Mark 13 and Mt. 24 are said to occur after the tribulation." Pre-wrath agrees with everything you imply by these scriptures. The difference is in how we view the great trib. We see the...

Sorry som but this:"Matthew 24 also refers to the abomination of desolation when people who call themselves Christians start hunting and killing people for food." is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Vet, I'm well aware of all the prophecies concerning 1260 days, 42 months...

Hi som, Not wanting to argue but you are assuming it is speaking of the same event. I don't believe it is. I do believe the time of Jacob's trouble and the great trib of satan's wrath upon the church may overlap, but imo, they are separate events. One is judgment, the other is a "trial by fire"...

I repeat post #159 - Hi son of man, There is no scripture that tells us that tribulation lasts 3 1/2 yrs. either. The bible doesn't call it tribulation, people do. There is no timeline given for how long it lasts, we just know it begins when the a of d is set up in the temple. Could the time of...

Hi Retro, Your words:"There are just too many things which must be qualified first before we can agree. Am I making sense to you?" Of course it makes sense but that seems to be the crux of the problem. In most cases "agreement" won't occur until prophecy becomes history. Unless you bring up...

Hi Retro, Your words: "This whole thread so far has been an exercise in futility! Without some common ground upon which to build, you have no basis for argument." Yeah, sometimes it does become an "exercise in futility" and that's when I "bow out" now and then only to return at a later date...

Hi Axehead, Your words: "There are 2 views of "rightly dividing". One is the dispensational view and the other is the covenantal view." I don't know if it has to be either/or. I think it's both. I've always considered myself a quasi-dispensationalist. The typical dispensationalist sees this...

Hi son of man, There is no scripture that tells us that tribulation lasts 3 1/2 yrs. either. The bible doesn't call it tribulation, people do. There is no timeline given for how long it lasts, we just know it begins when the a of d is set up in the temple. Could the time of Jacob's trouble last...

Hi Vet, There's no confusion on my part. Imo, pre-wrath flows smoothly with the prophecies of scripture. We've already discussed all the points you brought out several times over. You see your way as making sense and I see mine. Phrases like last "day" and last "trump" don't really have the...

Hi Vet, I can't tell if you're correcting your mistake or what. This is what you said in post #16: :Those seven lamps (from Zech. 4) are the seven candlesticks our Lord defined in Rev.1:20 as the 7 Churches, which was a new revealing." The seven stars/angels of Rev. 1:20 are commonly considered...

Hi MT, Imo, any theory that has more than two individuals and depends on questionable symbolism should be re-examined.

Hi Vet, Your words: "Those seven lamps are the seven candlesticks our Lord defined in Rev.1:20 as the 7 Churches, which was a new revealing." I'm afraid you're getting your symbolism mixed up. The seven lamps are different from the seven candlesticks. Rev. 4:5 identifies the seven lamps as the...

Hi Vet, Your words: "It's only because of the doctrines of men you hold to that's making you think that. Christ only gave 7 signs for the end in His Olivet Discourse, not 21." It seems the logical conclusion would be that the church would only be here for the first seven (seals) and that we...

Hi Terry, At the point you're talking about I believe is a recreation, sort of , of Joseph's dream in Gen. 37:9-10. However, in the OP I wrote this: "Now when I read this description of the woman on the beast in Rev. 17:4 - “The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with...

Hi Terry, Are you mid-trib or prewrath? Myself, I'm pre-wrath. As for the topic on hand, I side with Vet.

Hi Vet, Your words: "If you try to say the 7 candlesticks don't represent the 7 Churches of Rev.2 & 3, then you go directly against Christ's Own words as written." Now you know I'm not saying that! I'm saying STOP there! The analogy does not carry over anywhere else in Revelations. Rev. 11:4...

Hi Vet, This is the best argument for Jerusalem to date, however, Placing the a of d in Jerusalem, (which I agree with) doesn't automatically translate the harlot as being Jerusalem. Could the beast of Rev. 17 have its headquarters there? Absolutely, but the picture is of the harlot riding the...

Hi Vet, Your words: "Christ gave a new Revelation about the 'candlesticks' there in Rev.1:20. They are 7 candlesticks in Heaven to represent 7 Churches on earth. That's BOTH a Heavenly pattern, and an earthly pattern for the candlesticks. Thus the meaning is no longer just some mystical idea...