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Haven't you realized by now that pre-wrath IS post -trib? When you understand what the great trib is, what it entails, it's short duration, that it's not the last 3 1/2 yrs. or 7yrs. It's just a short period of time within the context of the 70th week. Your theology is post 70th week and that I...

I know you want to "debunk" it but no one has been able to in 25 yrs. I doubt you'll be the first. You can disagree with it, you can argue against it but until prophecy becomes history, NO ONE will be able to debunk it.

Hi Kaotic, It all depends on how you define tribulation. Seeing as how there is nothing in scripture that says that tribulation lasts 7 yrs. or 3.5 yrs, imo, calling the 70th week, "the tribulation period" is a misnomer. There is a "great trib" spoken of by Christ in Matt. 24:21 and it ends per...

Veteran, Your words: “Well, now it's my turn to correct you. Daniel 7:25 gives us a specifc time of 3.5 years that the false one coming will wear out the saints and be given into his hand for that amount of time. That's the same time period which Revelation is pointing to with the 42 months or...

Hi Vet, We've been here before. I agree with your last sentence but exactly when is still the question. You can call it the "last day" and leave it at that or we could call it the last day of the age. Realistically the "real" last day won't come until the end of the rebellion that comes at the...

Kaotic, You debunk nothing. You just ramble on and on trying to prove a point that isn't provable. Here's the bottom line: Anyone that builds a foundation of theological belief based on a two-word phrase that is only used once in the bible, with absolutely no scriptural proof that it is even...

No I had not heard of the Jonah reference. Good one

Yes, Pre-wrath believes the rapture will end the great trib which is satan's wrath upon the church per Rev. 12:17. Our time of persecution and martyrdom is depicted in Rev. 13:7-10. The 5th seal martyr's are part of that future persecution with the signs of the sixth seal heralding the start of...

Hi Mark, Not exactly. I believe the 70th week ends with the 7th trumpet. The vial judgments occur during the first thirty days after, culminating in Armageddon (the 1290 days of Daniel). This is for His physical return to earth. I believe Matt. 24:29-31 occurs sometime around year 4 or 5 of the...

Semantics

Hi Mark, Your questions: "How long does the beast have authority? When does the beast receive authority?" Rev. 13:5 - "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months." This verse answers both questions...

Hi Mark, In my opinion, Matt. 24:31 is a picture of the rapture. As a pre-wrather we believe this will occur an est. 2-3 yrs. before the gathering of the nations at Matt. 25:32, which we believe is at the beginning of the millennium. This judgment decides who is worthy to enter the millennial...

Hi Mark, Would you supply a couple of references please that show this two-part gathering?

Hi pelaides, lol, no, they're not a secret. Here's some to get you started. Gen.3:15, 12:3, 17:19, 49:10, Is. 9:1,2,7, 7;14, 40:3-5, 50:6, 53:1,3,5,7,9,12, 61:1-2 Hos. 11:1 Ps. 8:2, 16:10, 22:1,7-8,17-18, 34:20, 35:11,19, 41:9, 49:15, 68:18, 110:4

Hi Kaotic, Your words: "I say the way to settle this is to accept the words of Jesus!" I agree and it's all I've ever done. Matt. 24:29-31 - "Immediately after the tribulation of those days ( the persecution and martyrdom of the church) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give...

Hi Rand, LOL! In this case tho, I don't think it would work. I think the most popular majority belief is still pre-trib so even if we consider them wrong that doesn't change the difference of opinion between pre-wrath and post-trib. It's not as big a deal as Kaotic wants it to be though. I'm...

Kaotic, I don't know why I bother because you apparently only read scripture that seems to agree with your pov and reject everything other scripture that defies it. Rev. 6:16-17 - "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and...

Hi Mark, I'm not sure I understand your point then. Your words: But I do disagree with you specifically on one point. Both gatherings occur at the time that Jesus comes in glory. There isn't a significant gap of time between them. I'm assuming we are speaking of Matt. 25. There is only one...

I've got to side with liz on this one. The law of tithing isn't meant for the church. But to give as generously as one can is the NT teaching. This giving does not have to be to a church. If it were me, a church would be the last place I would give because the money doesn't go where it should...

Kaotic, Your words: "Christian's aren't appointed to wrath??? That's true. But that doesn't mean that it's averted by a rapture! The Word say's it's averted by Christ through repentance...i.e.salvation." It's only complicated to you, not to pre-wrath adherents. Within the context of 1 Thess...