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Saint, I agree that the great trib and God's wrath are two separate events, but do you consider Christ an alarmist? What does He tell us about it? Matt. 24:21 - "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." If Christ...

Veteran, did you ever consider that Christ/the day of the Lord could come as a "thief", more than once? We agree that when the term "as a thief" is used it is speaking of unbelievers and not the church. Imo, He could come as a thief once with the rapture, capturing the world with surprise, not...

Retrobyter, I think you're over intellectualizing my intent. When I say the church as a whole is the universal body of believers, I mean just that. Believers are like cells. In many cases, we belong to a smaller local church or "body of Christ". Each member of that "local" body has a...

Veteran, again we have reached a stalemate but I want you to know that I appreciate the time and effort you put into your responses. Shilofoals. There is none so blind as he who would not see. Arnie, No problem, thanks for the re-consideration and I look forward to future discussions.

Good point, Arnie :rolleyes:

Veteran, Our differences mainly lies in how we see Christ's return. You see it as a singular event and I believe it's in two stages, a rapture, then His return to Earth for Armageddon. Why do I see it this way? Simply because the bible gives two completely different visions of His return. The...

Veteran, Your words:The "day of the Lord" begins... when our Lord Jesus returns to gather us. The OT prophets, as Paul and Peter also, covered the event of Christ's return and our gathering on... that "day of the Lord" event (1 Thess.5:1-2; 2 Pet.3:10; 2 Thess.2:1-2; Zechariah 14:1-5). So when...

Veteran, As far as this topic is concerned we seem to have reached a stalemate. You see things one way, I see it another way. Only time will tell which is right. However, whomever is right isn't the point, imo, the point is the discussion and exchange of ideas in itself and the "friendly"...

Retrobyter, Let's take a closer look Dan. 9:24-27 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and...

Shilohsfoal, Your words:"I understand what is written about Romney in scripture and I also know what he believes he must do to fulfill Joseph Smiths prophecies." Are you actually giving credence to Joseph Smith's prophesies and equating them with scripture? Thats like believing the prophecies...

There are many people out there who believe that the seven churches of Revelations 2 & 3 represent the various church ages throughout history. This is how it was broken down by a gentleman named Gary Cohen: Ephesus - The Apostolic Church - 30AD-100AD Smyrna - The Persecuted Church - 100-313AD...

If you’ll notice in Rev. 1:4, it is addressed to the seven churches in the province of Asia. Not synagogues, not temples but churches. The whole book is written to us and for us, the church, the Body of Christ. This brings us to the topic of Dispensationalism. This is the belief that Israel and...

Veteran, Your words:"Why can't brethren understand our Lord's Revelation does that too? That's what the great multitude event of Rev.7:9 forward is, a jump forward in timeline to AFTER... Jesus has returned to gather His Church." I'm aware that the OT prophets use what I call "telescoping"...

Veteran, I believe that I am listening to what Christ and the Holy Spirit has shown me. Here's the way I look at it. Pre-wrath has a lot more in common with post-tribbers (which I'm assuming you are) than we do with pre-tribbers. I'm a prepper and I fully expect to be here for the majority of...

Veteran, in my opinion, the Day of the Lord starts with the signs of the sixth seal as referenced by Joel and Matt. 24 and extends through the millennium until after the GWTJ which is still part of the day of the Lord. In the OT there are way too many events to believe it to be just a single 24...

Sorry for the confusion, Veteran, I assumed (my bad) that when speaking of spiritual promises you would know that I was referencing about the new covenant. Jer. 31:31-33 -"Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of...

This verse hasn’t made sense to me for a long time. It just seemed out of place. It’s placement in the book of Rev. seemed illogical because I always assumed it was speaking of the rapture. I was discussing this with a post-tribber but it really doesn’t fit in with the post-trib scenario either...

You shouldn't comment on the articles you don't read. If you did read it you would see the church is mentioned in several places through Rev. 4-18.

God's wrath and the great trib are completely separate from each other. The great trib, imo, is satan's wrath upon the church per Rev. 12:17 and will end at the 7th seal rapture. Judgment and God's wrath comes after.

And when he doesn't, hopefully you'll change your mind.