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All of the spiritual promises/prophecies, like Jer. 31 and Joel 2, about Israel's relationship with God were fulfilled with the early church. All the rest of the prophecies dealing with the nation of Israel, are still and will always be for the nation of Israel. The church is not in sight for...

Did you even read what I wrote? I affirm that the church will not be here for the wrath of the Lamb and God's wrath. As for the church being the bride, that's another doubtful subject, altogether.

Episkopos... Is spiritual Israel the bride of Christ? The NT does not affirm that specifically. That Christ is the groom is undeniable but I have different thoughts on who the bride might be. For now, spiritual Israel and national Israel are separate but that will not always be the case, imo...

Why should the church endure the great tribulation? I believe I can answer this question through God's word. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." I think it's safe to assume that the whole bible is God's message to the church in one way or another via 2 Tim...

Heaven is the home for the church and the earthly millennium will be the home for those who come out of the 70th week alive and are allowed to enter in via the sheep and goat judgments of Matt. 25. Yes, some of us will rule and reign on earth, but it will be an extreme minority of believers as I...

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

I see where you're coming from. There is no seven year tribulation in the bible. I do believe in a future 70th week consisting of seven years but only a short period within that context is the great trib. The great trib, imo, is Satan's wrath against the church per Rev. 12:17. It will start...

I don’t believe that Islam will be the vehicle of the antichrist. They will, in fact, ultimately go to war against each other. The anti in antichrist does not mean against Christ, it means instead of Christ. The antichrist’s goal will not be to destroy Israel but to take the praise and worship...

I agree, being a pre-wrather I believe the rapture will occur at the 7th seal and the church won't be here for the wrath of the Lamb (trumpets) or the wrath of God (vials). One must understand that Revelations is for the most part chronological, imo, but there are parts in the latter chapters...

Hi everyone, I took this thread from another community I belonged to. The person whose comments are in red was stating their belief in dispensationalism (the belief that God deals separately with the church and Isreal and never simultaneously) as proof of a pre-tribulational rapture. This...

I believe there are two identities to Israel, spiritual and national. For now, whether gentile or jew we are all one new man,a spiritual Israelite but at the end of the age, in my opinion, God will set aside a remnant of national jewish believers (the 144,000 and other remnants) to physically...

Veteran: Your words:"Thus you are purposefully 'misrepresenting' the Scriptures as they are actually written. That should be enough to prove to others here that you're following an agenda outside of The Scriptures of God's Word. Your bullying tactics might work on other newbies but it won't...

I'm not sure how to work the quotes yet but Rockytopva made this statement: "We don't even know the name of the event! We give it the name of the rapture but call it whatever you will! The Lord Jesus Christ comes for his church as a thief! At a time unlooked for! My response to this is the Day...

I like Limbaugh's recent quote. "Blaming guns for murder is like blaming forks for obesity"

Absolutely! A person could read only the OTand never gain salvation. It can't be attained. However a person could receive salvation having never opened the OT at all.

Hi Folks, This is my first official post and I'm kinda testing the waters here. There are so many topics to read and the replies as well that I thought I would start new posts on what might be already existing threads, or not, I haven't read everything and probably won't. Much of what I have to...

Hi Folks, As you've guessed I'm a newbie to this forum but not to christian debating in general. My eschatology is pre-wrath and I see that I'm not alone for a change. I believe in being a Berean and try to use scripture over personal opinion however when dealing with prophecy all any of us...

Hi, I thought it would be interesting to share some quotes from the early church fathers to show what their thoughts of the end times were. I believe, because the various "trib" (pre, mid, post, prewrath) beliefs were not yet formed they could be put in a category called, "post-persecution"...

Many people confuse the “last trump” of 1 Co. 15:51-52 with being the seventh trumpet judgment of Revelations. There are two main reasons why I don’t believe this to be true. The first reason is that it is accepted by most biblical scholars that Revelations was written a few decades after Paul’s...