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  1. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Only that it was a general comment to the conversation that was going on. Think about it, SI. Not that you're not, but just not... well... I guess. That conjunction 'and' is important; it shows that No, of those he used the word translated 'dissolved,' and something can be dissolved in the...
  2. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    No, it's talking about the level of faith that some Christians are particularly gifted with. Saving faith is saving faith. Again, some Christians are particularly gifted in it by the Spirit. The same is true of the other gifts of the Spirit mentioned. Take wisdom, for instance. All...
  3. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    "the earth will be destroyed by fire when Jesus returns (2 Peter 3:10-12). " Actually, Peter says there in verse 12 that "the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." He says nothing about the earth itself being...
  4. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Okay, cool. But it is what it is. <smile> I did not say faith ~ salvific faith ~ was given to all, but only to those of us who have been saved. This faith, Trekson, by definition, as I said, is given by God. We have the very definition of faith, in Hebrews 11:1... "faith is the assurance of...
  5. PinSeeker

    Question for Premils (Amils welcome to answer): How many times are the dead judged?

    We will all be judged in the final Judgment of Revelation 20:11-14. Corelating it to the way Jesus depicts it in Matthew 25:31-46, the ones on Jesus's right are judged in Revelation 20:12, and the ones on Jesus's left in Revelation 20:13. Revelation 20:4-6 is a resurrection, for sure, but...
  6. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Yes, they are, but you're missing ~ or avoiding ~ the point. Read what Paul said in Romans 4 again. It's not difficult. Well, good. But faith itself is a gift of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:9). And faith is given to us by.... Somebody. <smile> We do not manufacture our own faith; we...
  7. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Disagree. The time of tribulation is now, in this life, just as Jesus said. And again, you're conflating tribulation, which we have now, and God's wrath which is still yet to come and will only be... experienced... in the form of eternal punishment, the second death, by the unrepentant, those...
  8. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Oh, so now you're admitting that there is such a thing, at least... <chuckles> As I said, though, it wasn't "prophesied," it was pronounced... God said, since this has happened, since Adam has done this, this is how things will be from now on, and this is what I will do. I mean it's fine with...
  9. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    In your opinion. Yeah, totally get it. God deals with people ~ all people ~ differently than he originally dealt with Adam and Eve prior to the events of Genesis 3. This is first announced in Genesis 3:15, and is the same today, and will be until Jesus returns. Noone is doing that; it is...
  10. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Just regarding John's Revelation, I would recommend "The Returning King," by Dr. V. S. Poythress. You can read it absolutely free of charge online at that link. I know him, too... <smile> Grace and peace to all.
  11. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Nobody here is doing either. We just disagree, obviously, on what it (and Revelation 7) is saying. I (and others) just don't... "understand it"... <smile> ...in the same small, wooden way you do. <chuckles> Grace and peace to you.
  12. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    We disagree on the sense in which what you say here are true. They are true, but not in the sense that you say them. In this life, we cannot absolutely remove ourselves ~ or be removed ~ from "all these things." You're actually doing the same thing on this that @rebuilder 454 is doing in...
  13. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    It seems you misunderstand the 'escape' in Luke 21:36. You can escape something in the sense of not falling victim to that thing, of being sustained from it. It seems also that you misunderstand, in the same sense, the 'keeping' that Christ speaks of in Revelation 3:10. We will be kept...
  14. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    There is... are... no... "raptures." Jesus will come back, the final judgment will occur, and the unsaved will be sent away. The time of tribulation is now, just as Jesus said in John 16:33. There will be, though, a great ramping up of this tribulation near the end as His return approaches...
  15. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Absolutely disagree. The first proclamation ~ by God, of course ~ of the Covenant of grace is Genesis 3:15. The mediator of the covenant of works was Adam, and he failed in Genesis 3. From that point on, the God's covenant of grace was in effect, and Jesus is depicted in the form of types and...
  16. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Not necessarily disagreeing, Trekson, but not really sure what you mean here. Grace and peace to you.
  17. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Not really. The problem begins, really, when people try to separate the Old Testament from the New. Tribulation of all kinds in this life knows no time barriers. <smile> Grace and peace to you, Trekson.
  18. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    <chuckles> Their “job,” Trekson, was to be God’s “mouthpiece”… to speak God’s words to them, and they were mostly about very present matters ~ statements about Who He is, promises, encouragements, instruction, and sometimes admonishments, and warnings. Which, actually, we get in the New...
  19. PinSeeker

    Rapture Thoughts of Some Early Church Leaders

    Well, one who holds to a "pretrib understanding" is, more broadly speaking, either historicist or futurist. But the historicist, futurist, and preterist schools of thought are all... wrong. It can looked at and discussed in much greater detail, of course, but even just from a 40,000 foot view...
  20. PinSeeker

    "True" Israel?

    Ah, Well God's Israel ~ His household ~ includes Gentile believers, yes. As Paul says in Romans 2:28-29, "no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical... a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit"... and in Ephesians...