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.it actually says he Is revealed before the gathering. It says concerning the AC whom he WILL destroy ( several years later.) You are trying unsuccessfully to make it revealed and destroyed at the end of the trib. I 100% believe that the Antichrist will be revealed and we will know who he is...

Jesus comes after the trib Jesus comes before the trib. The bible says so. We all believe he gatherers after the trib. We all believe that. The bible says he also gathers before the trib ...and rev 14:14 during the trib.

here it appears you are saying the church will be oblivious to who he is until the white horses

The coming postrib is not the coming of rev 14:14. Unless you want to change rev 19. No matter what you try to change , those facts remain

I do not get what you are proposing here. Are you saying He is revealed and destroyed at the same time or not??? IOW...are you saying the elect, the church, will have no clue who he really is ??? Not revealed until Jesus returns???

Nope Re read it Ahem..sitting on a cloud. Holding a sickle. Then you try to fit a coming/gathering with the setting of normal life and commerce and peacetime into a coming in a war zone. What you propose is utterly impossible. Does not come close to fitting. You really think all 3 of those...

then rev 14:14 is a lie. Jesus comes and is not destroying anything, and that coming is vividly described, and 100% against your theory

Wow thanks for that! That is yet another pretrib rapture component! ******at his coming******* rev 14:14 Jesus SITTING ON A CLOUD HOLDING A SICKLE. gathering the elect during the trib.( a gathering at his coming) Mat 24: 38... Jesus COMING..YES AT HIS COMING before the flood one taken, one...

""If that's all you're saying, we agree. The Antichrist is revealed, but is also *destroyed* at the Coming of Christ. You skip over the "destroyed" part!""" Yes he is revealed pretrib before he takes power then the rapture. Yes that wicked one who will be destroyed at the second coming on white...

You have in your opinion, one coming. What is rev 14:14 Mat 24:38 The one taken one left before the flood?

The AC in your opinion is revealed at the white horses coming of rev19?

clouds obscure anything going up. That is all that is there.

We all know that. REFRAME it all you want.

You are saying Jesus is not Firstfruit s Then command me to read the bible.

"But the biggest problem is you ignore the explicit Postrib teaching in 2 Thes 1-2. And you ignore its connection to Dan 7 where Daniel pictures the Son of Man coming from heaven to deliver his saints from the Antichrist and to establish his Kingdom." I have stated over and over. The AC is...

No Obama was revealed way before he took power. It is the Jews that will be deceived. The AC is revealed to us, as Obama was revealed as a snake, way before he had any power. It says "REVEALED"

He left heaven for Paul and John. Bit nice try.

nope Jesus is the FIRSTFRUITS of the resurrection. The patriarchs alongside Jesus were raised and taken to heaven So Job preceded you and is resurrected and in heaven, so, Job was wrong about a lot of things. You need that changed to fit doctrine.

Nope I am saying what is written. It says the AC is revealed before the rapture. That is what it says. I am saying the exact same thing. So you hit all around that fact but miss. QUOTE ""You confuse symbolic scenes with real history. You confuse one example with another example, and miss the...

No Pre-TB said: Can someone explain pre-tb with 2Thess 2:1-4 ? Or can you explain it with Job 14:12 ? Or 2 Timothy 4:1 ? Or Isaiah 25:6-10 ? Or Acts 3:21 ? The verse that you pointed out in job is actually Job talking. Job had a lot of false Concepts and he was making a lot of false cases...