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No Pre-TB said: Can someone explain pre-tb with 2Thess 2:1-4 ? Or can you explain it with Job 14:12 ? Or 2 Timothy 4:1 ? Or Isaiah 25:6-10 ? Or Acts 3:21 ? I love that verse where Peter talks about the restoration of all things. I love that verse. And we will see it one day. I don't know if you...

No Pre-TB said: Can someone explain pre-tb with 2Thess 2:1-4 ? Or can you explain it with Job 14:12 ? Or 2 Timothy 4:1 ? Or Isaiah 25:6-10 ? Or Acts 3:21 ? I've always believed in second Thessalonians chapter 2 that the Antichrist would be revealed first before the Rapture I've always believed...

"""You show you don't even know Christ's parable about harvest time in Matthew 13""" Oh the irony from someone who knows nothing of FIRSTFRUITS.

And that harvest is before the wicked are harvested but after the 144k FIRSTFRUITS. A Jewish harvest. The church is part of Jesus Firstfruit s ascended to heaven. If you misinterpret """firstfruits""" you will simply ascribe it recklessly to whatever suits your doctrine. """And by the way...

Nope Jesus is Firstfruit s of the resurrection and the church. That is a fact The 144k are Firstfruit s of the JEWISH harvest. So until you get that straight, you will not get the timeline straight.

""" Was the comparison between the Flood/Sodom and Judgment at Christ's Coming about *when* the gathering of the Church would be? Or, was it to show that things would get worse and that the wicked world is what precipitates these great judgments?""" You are reframing it. Luke 17 28 Likewise...

Before is not before. Before is after. It really means after!!!! Huh???????? Noah is delivered after the flood. Lot is removed after Sodom burned Got it!!!!!!!

"""You have not proved anything you have asserted in your OP. Jesus was not implying that Noah and Lot were totally unaware of what was about to come upon the world/Sodom & Gomorrah. He was talking about unbelievers being caught unaware. The Two Witnesses will also be making all the saints...

None of that changes the fact they both are prejudgment dynamics. We all see that the wicked were present. So nothing there in what ever you think you proved. All the components are STILL THERE You can try and add to it, or remove an item. I will just bring you back to the facts. Anytime I see...

no, there is no shame in the facts of Lot or Noah, you may find shame in Gods word but I am not the slightest moved by your little shame dynamic. Yes we all see there is a falling away before the rapture. And as you pointed out we will see him revealed PRETRIB. You accurately say "revealed"...

Moses represents the first coming ...Joshua the second coming. I don't know your timeline You keep posting where angels gather the elect from heaven and I suppose you are trying to transpose that on to the rapture????

LOL THE LOT analogy ..ahem..that you left out was made by Jesus as a parallel and authenticates a pre judgement removal. You really despise it. How shameful SMH

mat 24 :29-31 is also rev 19. The second coming in war, judgement, and power. No matter how hard you stretch it, rev 14:14 can not POSSIBLY be the same thing. Nor can mat 24:38 be mat 24:29. Will not work. That one you can not change.

quote """The words " The rapture" originates from a translation of the words translated as "Being caught up" in 1 Thess 4:17 - nowhere else, and no other verse. There is only one rapture day and it's the same as the resurrection day, and it's the same day that Christ returns, which comes...

As you just posted after the trib angels gather from heaven. The rapture has Jesus gathering from earth. Two different comings or gatherings as you pointed out. I am not hung up on trying to find 4 or 5 meanings for the word tribulation. That is your basis for all end times My basis is the...

"""As for the "pretrib" rapture being hinted at in the first parable is ludicrous to say the least.""" This is your conclusion. ....and has no investigation of the virgins parable. Just a conclusion. The virgin parable is a vivid depiction of the pre tribulation rapture. The bridegroom is...

The baby Jesus removed is not my opinion. His life was spared via removal. Lot removed is not my opinion. It is a fact his life was saved via removal. Saying it is my opinion is a dodge .

Zao quote: """Nice try but this thread is proof to all who read it of the fact that you're falsely accusing others of what only you have been doing.""" SMH the ENTIRE point of this thread is the words of Jesus "before the flood" and the authentication of Jesus as a before judgement return in...

"""You have been omitting both scripture and facts all along that don't agree with what you're saying""" You are just repeating me. You don't have verses that you can present to me that I run from. Instead of just wildly ascribing omission, post your verses and I will gladly address them. You...

we know he comes postrib. Everyone says so. The bible says there is a gathering DURING the trib in rev 14 The bible says there is a gathering before the trib in mat 24:38. I have studied postrib rapture teachers. 2 of which I follow closely( Dr brown and Kent hovind) I have the unique position...