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I have already indicated in numerous posts, those meant in verse 10 will indeed literally be tormented for ever and ever since they are unable to die a 2nd death, the fact they never experienced a first death. Including the beast and false prophet, the fact they are cast alive into the LOF...

You must not have read some of my posts. My position in regard to humans is not ECT but is annihilation eventually, But not in the same manner as @Randy Kluth uses that term. Therefore, how can I possibly think God burns humans in literal fire for ever if ECT in regard to humans is not even my...

You still have to get past that it is only the saved humans that can never die any more. Therefore, until you can get past that first, no matter what you argue is not valid in the meantime, the fact that for ECT to be true of humans, that when they are bodily resurrected,, it requires that they...

IMO, the fire is 100% literal fire. That changes things then if humans cast into it can never die again even though it's called the 2nd death. As to verse 10, the 2nd death is not relevant in satan's case. A 2nd death implies a first death. satan has never died, period. Thus is unable to die...

Revelation 14: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever = Revelation 18:9-24 = Revelation 19:2-3. But does it also = Revelation 20:10-15? Because if it does, one then has to explain those Standing afar off for the fear of her torment(Rev 18:10) and in what way is that...

When and where are you proposing they experience this 'no rest day or night'? Maybe we are somewhat on the same page in regard to some of that? Or maybe not.

'' Hmmm...I now understand your point. Initially I didn't.

Does any of the following reflect your position? The Church is raptured before the Tribulation. The Church Age ends at the rapture. Passages like Ephesians 1:13 (the sealing of the Spirit) apply to the Church, not to those who are saved during the Tribulation. People can still be saved during...

Since you provided no commentary, it's anybodies guess as to what point you are hoping to make here? I certainly don't know.

As to this mark in question. According to the text per Revelation 13, there is not a mark to take or not take until a first beast rises out of the sea, and it's deadly wound has been healed. And that a 2nd beast then rises out of the earth then fulfills everything written about it in Revelation...

I understand the point you're making about the word 'and', but I think your argument is separating two things that John never separates. The issue isn't whether the word 'and' joins two conditions. Of course it does. The issue is whether Revelation ever presents the mark of the beast as...

Maybe we can find some common ground here we both can agree on? The following makes it crystal clear repentance is still possible at this point, except John sees that they never repent. And if they never repent, how does that not equal they are cast into the LOF in the end? We have to keep in...

The question that seems to resolve this is a simple one--- when John sees the entire sequence of events from beginning to end, does he give any indication that someone who receives the mark of the beast can later repent and reverse that decision? Because if the claim is that “everybody gets the...

If you are implying what I think you are implying, I then 100% disagree. So let's look at the text itself. Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the...

Keep in mind John saw all these events from start to finish. Where then is there anything in what he saw that even hints that those that receive the MOTB can still repent, thus reverse having taken it? You are not factoring in that taking the MOTB is not done out of ignorance. The reason many...

IMO, it is absurd that there could be this time marker, a Pretrib rapture in this case, that then begins the countdown to the hour and day of His return. If that scenario was possible, Jesus would not have said no man knows the day or the hour. It would make Him a liar and a false prophet...

The MOTB is connected with buying and selling. Should we take the buying and selling in the literal sense or some other sense? If the latter, what other sense might explain it? Especially now that technology such as AI is a reality.

How can the mark be symbolic in this case, that unless someone has the mark, they are unable to buy and sell? How would it be determined via a symbolic scenario regarding the mark, that this person is allowed to buy and sell but this person isn't? Let's not forget, with AI now a reality and...

I disagree it's an interesting point the fact it is not even a valid point to begin with. The OP's question assumes something Revelation itself never assumes---that someone can receive the MOTB while not worshiping the beast. But John's narrative points in the opposite direction. First, look...

Think about it, though I know you actually won't. Nowhere in Revelation 20:10 does it ever call that the 2nd death. And it's plainly obvious as to why. Those in that verse have never died and that a 2nd death implies a first death. The fact the beast and fp are cast alive into the LOF clearly...