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The Calvinism of unconditional election and irresistible grace seems to use the language of 'driven' to Christ, but Jesus in John 6:37, 44, 65 uses the language of 'drawing' and 'being granted' by the Father. The gentle drawing and wooing by the Father, through the Spirit. In 1 John 4:19 we are...

Deborah, Jesus made it clear that it was not human free will that made the initial drawing of people to himself. I don't think anything could be clearer than these verses in John 6: John 6:37 (ESV), 'All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out'...

Therefore, Stan, that seems to make your beliefs Semi-Pelagian since you leave the initiative for salvation with human beings and not with God. Here is a summary of Arminius's understanding on 'Foreknowledge and Predestination'. Arminius did believe in predestination, but of a different kind to...

WW, I agree that modernism and postmodernism are laden with faults. I most certainly do not exalt the supremacy of human reason. I'll eventually get to an article associated with my dissertation on Crossan, the postmodernist, and his exaltation of human reason. However, it was God himself who...

Angelina, The analogy given by your spiritual father is not original with him. I've heard that a few times over in the land Down Under as well. However, your answer doesn't deal with the verses I gave from John 6.

Hammer, Thanks for your detailed response. I agree with much of what you have written. The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy's article on 'Postmodernism' is, in my view, a fairly accurate overview. It includes a small exposure to Jurgen Habermas's critique of postmodernism. I hope you have...

WW, Of course you haven't upset me in this discussion. I've enjoyed it, but I found you repeating yourself with more illustrations of basically what we had previously gone over. I see no point in a repeat. I understand that you are trying to communicate that you don't see apologetics as...

Which edition of the KJV do you use? Do you use the original 1611 edition, complete with Apocrypha?

Bible_Gazer, When 2 Tim 3:16 was written, 'All scripture is given by inspiration of God...', were the KJV and NIV around? Therefore, which Scripture is inspired of God? Which Greek NT do you read? You claim, 'I think KJV group was 400 years closer to the Greek understanding than modern Greek...

No, Jesus body was his fleshly body. Where is the biblical evidence for your view that Jesus spirit is God? I urge you not to try to understand the hypostatic union in terms you are using. It would be better to investigate how this is explained in an article such as, 'What is the hypostatic...

No I am not saying Jesus is God because he is spirit, soul and body. Jesus was always God (see John 1:1). Nobody can see your spirit or mine. It is invisible. It leaves the body at death and goes to be with God, but the body goes into the earth to become dust (Ecclesiastes 12:7). Since when...

Bible_Gazer, Jesus was the God-man and when Jesus walked on earth, you saw the incarnated Jesus - the Jesus in the flesh. We can't see your spirit or mine. Your second paragraph does not make sense to me. I do not know what you are wanting to say. Oz

Stan, You continue to demonstrate that you don't know the meaning of a red herring fallacy and how you use it. See: Red herring fallacy (Nizkor Project). You are proving again that when you use any kind of logical fallacy, it uses fallacious logic. Therefore, it is difficult, if not...

brakelite, Let's get something cleared up about my view of eternal punishment. You and I have not discussed this openly on CyB, so you have no basis for your statement about my view, 'That component is where we would differ. Your contention would be, if I am understanding you correctly, that...

:D

I note what you seem to deliberately miss one of the attributes of God - the wrath of God. We know from these OT passages that God's response to sin and disobedience is to demonstrate His character of wrath: Psalm 78:56-66; Deuteronomy 1:26-46; Joshua 7:1; Psalm 2:1-6. This carries forward...

Tom, I hope you mean the flesh of human beings when you use the generic 'man'. There was only one place for Jesus to become flesh and that was through the flesh of Mary. Without the Holy Spirit's causing Mary to conceive, there would have been no Jesus in the flesh. Oz

There would be no Jesus in the flesh without Mary's flesh.

So what is the nature of this eternal torment that you reject?

That would be a great idea to keep my hometown on the map. It's the home of aviation pioneer, Bert Hinkler, as well: