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Actually, those Jews of Galatians 4 still exist today--and they don't accept John's Baptism. John's Baptism has nothing to do with natural men being born.

I'm not going to quarrel with you. You don't know what you're saying, at all, period, end of story. Hopefully that will be as clear to the readers as it has been to me from the first comment you made here. Now we can get back to the point rather than spend an eternity correcting someone who...

Without a physical death, he and his Jewish cohorts who believed in Christ would still be "under Law"--as it is, having died, they are Lawfully exempted, as it states... "...through the Law, I died to the Law..." The Law commands the Jews' liberation from Itself when ever it is that they...

In case you want to quarrel about whether Paul meant we literally physically die with Christ, Paul was a Pharisee, and we have preserved in the Talmud an identical Pharisaic tradition (and again Paul assumed these Jewish Christian readers in the Roman Church he was addressing were aware of the...

Please show even one verse teaching John's water baptism unto repentance (not the New Covenant rite of water baptism in Christ's Name) wrought a birth of any sort.

It's better to consider how to make Jesus look great than how to make people think you're smart. I don't want to stray too far from the topic, so please let's bring it back to the topic.

No, read Romans 6:6, Romans 7:24-25, and take other relevant verses into consideration (eg, "I have been crucified with Christ" "through which I've been crucified to the world" "the Jew is only obligated to the Law as long as he lives... you also died through the body of Christ", etc, etc, etc).

They meant they were only in town while John preached, and somehow (easily explained--John baptized for some time before Christ began baptizing anyone--and certainly before the New Covenant was inaugurated) never were baptized into Christ. I didn't know you were drawing a distinction between...

The context of Romans 6:6 is one (the body of sin is destroyed just as the clay vessel must be destroyed after it is defiled--it cannot be cleansed or improved or reformed); the context of Jeremiah (God is trying to avert destroying them, so he's trying to give them another chance--and he says...

...it doesn't--there is no correlation between water baptism and Galatians 4 which condemns putting people "under Law" Galatians 4:21 which obviously cannot include "water baptism" since that is an integral part of Christianity. Impossible, as it is required by the New Covenant, which...

No, the carnal mind can only be destroyed Romans 6:6. The Law says a clay vessel once defiled cannot be cleansed it must be destroyed. It is better to be simple not complicated.

When you use Galatians 4, you take the entire argument there and use it--you denounce baptism as "under Law" "works of Law" and "false Gospel".

Not sure what purpose this comment serves, as that had already been granted... Please clarify. EDIT : I reread your claim--apparently you meant "Sarah allegorically signifies grace" not "Sarah's name means grace".

1. Hagar birthed Ishmael--Hagar signifies earthly Jerusalem in slavery together with her children the Jews signified by Ishmael. 2. There doesn't exist a verse of Scripture where anyone but "Jews" (those practicing the works of the Law--ethnically Jewish or converts to the "Judaism" of obedience...

He was thinking that John 3's "flesh gives birth to flesh" corresponded with "natural sons of Abraham--Jews" whom Galatians 4 taught were allegorically "Ishmael", "born of Jerusalem on earth [which] is enslaved together with her children", "slaves" "under Law" ; and that John 3's "spirit gives...

1. Same as I've said 2. It wouldn't necessarily be disconcerting would it? Maybe he just thought it was "handy" that he'd just been speaking on that--I know that's happened to me before.

LOL That's exactly what I'd had in mind. To say Galatians 4 taught that "water baptism" birthed "slaves" is to say that water baptism represents the heresy, the "accursed" "false Gospel" Galatians 1:6-9, of putting men under the works of the Law Galatians 4:21 Galatians 5:11 ("preaching")--that...

BTW, is "baptismal rebirth" a dogma? I've already disproven "Mary is New Eve" which is the foundation of the dogma of "Mary's Immaculate Conception". This would be another. Psalm 119 "I have more insight than all my teachers because Your statutes are my counselors" (para). You're welcome. You...

@Illuminator "My little children, for whom I am again in pangs of labor until Christ be formed in you again." Galatians 4:19. He is speaking the Word by the Spirit so that Christ will be in them again. This arguing to bring them back under the persuasion from God is "giving birth again"...

No, you also missed that the author tells us "rivers of living water" refers to the effect of receiving "the Spirit" in John 7. We speak words of life after we receive the Spirit. We are born of God--by means of the Word spoken by the power of the Spirit.