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I'm finally getting at your covering the various Bible passages @Soyeong but shaking my head. 1) The Fact that the Torah does not grant eternal life (as previous mentioned) is a straight up and extremely important fact. I really wanted to cover Fr. De Young's expedition of it more, this was...

@Soyeong I did ask Grok to look for other things in the epistle that I might have missed to suggest Judaizers as the context and this is what it said. " Yes, Colossians 2:16–17 presents the festivals, New Moons, and Sabbaths (along with food/drink regulations) as "a shadow of the things to...

Freedom From Human Rules 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do you believe these are...

Torahists that want to dismiss the Church Fathers need to take care because they themselves are like the tail of dog that thinks it is going to wag the entire dog. I got to say, I have been shocked talking to my friend over 2 years ago. Talking about his conceptions of the ancient Church...

This is patently false! All the so called "paganized" Christian holidays did not start until 2 centuries or more after the New Testament era. The Judaizers is the actual historic context of this passage.

@Soyeong "In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the...

Hi! Interesting things took off a long time after posting the thread. My rabbi friend gave up trying to defend his position. In honesty I don't think it is very defensible for several Biblical, Logical and Historical reasons. I think on his end, he believes the position is valid from the...

Nobody saying this, a complete Strawman. I am not Saul from Tarsus or the Sanhedrin, or even the Inquisition or the Albigensian Crusade who literally did this kind of thing!

Well, I already consider you hardened in your position. I just felt it was worth pointing out seeing you seem to be casting on shade on the pious Roman Centurions of the New Testament, creating doubt on if they were actually believers or not, when most folks would see them as something like...

It was Ignatius of Antioch. Ignatius of Antioch (c. AD 107–110) explicitly distinguishes Christianity as its own distinct faith and way of life in his seven genuine epistles (the shorter recension, widely accepted as authentic by scholars). These were written while he was being taken to Rome...

@Mattias the first thing you should realize in your deck stacking comes from your concept of "Converting to Christianity". That was different from how the original believers saw it, namely Christianity was not separate from Judaism but the fulfillment of Judaism. This secondly has relevance...

Well naturally the Coptic Church agrees with saint Paul in the book of Romans about "the need to bear the sword to restrain evil" and Egyptian Christians are in good standing as being soldiers, law enforcement etc. No Christian Church has ever black balled Christians from this as a total...

I'm surprised they did not mention the Theban legion! There was an entire Roman legion staffed by Coptic Christians that was martyred for some reason like not wanting to burn incense to Cesar or not wanting to follow some unjust law or command.

That is easy, I had Grok take everything from the Coptic Synaxeron. This is just martyrs and saints, while their is a much larger subset of people that we don't know about that were not martyred for the Faith. The Coptic Synaxarion (also called Synaxarium or al-Sinaksār) is the...

A state religion of paganism is different than a secular state! In general there is inconsistency to your viewpoint. It reminds me of the example I used talking about Orthodox Jews needing other people to do the work for them during Sabbath. It should always be to societies advantage to...

There are always conflicts in applying scripture for various reasons. This kind of problem was dealt in Judaism under such terms as Halacha, and is in Christianity when it comes to "Binding and Loosening" (Jesus using a Rabbinic term).

I actually did have Grok do a study on the Secular State via having Grok follow the conversation before. " Deep Analysis: Your Claim vs. Matthias’s Claim on the “Secular State” Here’s a clear, evidence-based breakdown of the core disagreement. Matthias’s Position He accepts a legitimate...

The problem with your view is the Secular State is a modern invention. This does get at my objection to your unrealism. It is one thing at personal level to not take revenge, turn the other cheek etc. Different thing when operating as a protector, leader, or father. For instance turn...

@Matthias and @Anchorite, I don't think you quite get it. Let's skip Jesus for now, and talk about the Old Testament especially dealing with all the Canaanites and "Ite" tribes surrounding Israel. I have spoken to other extreme Christian Idealists about the possibility of "Loving the...

@Matthias , I appreciate you engaging and quoting me. “Easier said than done” was my shorthand for the real tension here. Christians should strive for the high ethic of Jesus — love of enemies, turning the other cheek, overcoming evil with good. I don’t dispute that as the ideal for disciples...